Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges • Hacker News Board

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#681

Post by madeofpalk » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #536

caconym_ wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible I don't understand your point, but it seems fairly obvious to me that doing a little bit of a thing doesn't mean you can't benefit immensely from doing more of it. Hungry? Eat a cracker and you may be less so—and it may even make a material difference to your survival in an extreme situation—but it won't replace a full meal.

I agree that we should continue doing more things like the example given, also without using a labor union.

A union is often how these sorts of things get passed into law.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#682

Post by krageon » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 11:18 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #191

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

Big companies never want to give you a changed contract. It's a power trip thing and generally has nothing to do with what you actually want to change.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#683

Post by bonoboTP » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 11:28 AM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #598

bonoboTP wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by professional here? My guess is some mix of emotional detachment, serious tone and use of the right jargon and vocabulary?

Put bluntly, being a PITA when it wasn't at all necessary, as corp-issued devices are common. If I were a manager hiring this guy and heard that he kicked back the standard contract everyone else has for a pointless reason that had a workaround everyone already knows about, I'd have ended it right there because it casts their judgment in a poor light and I could see them causing me or my department issues in the futu…

This is not an answer to the above thread.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#684

Post by lucian1900 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 11:28 AM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #531

lucian1900 wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also an immigrant. It is true that the workers of rich countries are “bribed” with less exploitation to pit them against those in or from poor countries. But even their condition can be improved, so it’s possible to build solidarity. I’ve seen it myself. Ultimately, all value is created by workers and that is where profits are extracted from. If we can foster solidarity with one another, we can force bosses to ke…

Acting collectively with a guy standing with his knife poised above your back is a strategy you are welcome to. I don't think it's hard for you to see why I'm not keen on it. But there is a simple way to solve this. If your union has, as a bylaw, "It is an immutable rule of this union that it shall never act to decrease or keep constant the number of immigrants to the USA. If this union acts in that manner, it shall…

Most unions have anti-racism and anti-xenophobia in general as a central part of their organisation. Explicit rules exist in most, but many go further with resisting deportations, exposing discrimination in workplaces, solidarity strikes with workers in exploited countries, etc.

I'd recommend you contact some local trade unionists, you'll find that they're overwhelmingly pro immigration and anti-racist. You'll also find that marginalised groups (including immigrants) are vastly over-represented in the labour movement in general, since we are exploited more.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Post by lucian1900 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 11:33 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #518

black_puppydog wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not gonna be a very successful union then. The unions I know that actually work are near-universal, but you're never technically required to join. However, at certain levels of unionization, peer pressure kicks in because the "freeriders" effectively get protection from the union without pulling their weight.

> peer pressure kicks in because the "freeriders" effectively get protection from the union without pulling their weight. I would much rather the peer pressure be applied to those writing the checks, by their competition.

Their peers have the same material interests to keep wages low in order to keep profits high, so they rarely side with the workers. There are many documented cases of explicit collusion, even.

It's why it's important for workers to act collectively. Since they can threaten the owners' profits through strike, there is much more leverage.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#686

Post by colejohnson66 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 11:59 AM UTC

dheera wrote: post #587

colejohnson66 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about depositions, so the knowledge of an investigation followed by destruction of the data (whether intention or not) by handing the device over would be a crime. I can’t hand my phone over to the police and remote wipe it with iCloud, for example. Destruction when handing to a mugger is still ok.

Well it wouldn't be the user destroying data. Judge: "Hand over that phone right now" You: "Sure, I can hand it over, but all data will then get wiped by the device automatically due to Google/Apple/Samsung's anti-theft design and I don't have a choice" After that it's upto the Judge whether to proceed with the handover or not. It will be the judge who destroyed the data if so.

As I said before: technicalities don’t work. You’re not getting out of this. If you told the judge that, he’d change his order to hand over the data in a different way. Have fun sitting down with the police while they copy all of the data off by hand while you show them each item.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Post by colejohnson66 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 12:00 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #637

astrange wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judges don't appreciate clever tricks of any kind, and neither does the law. Anything you think of that sounds like a clever trick is not something you should actually try.

No, it wouldn't even be my trick. It would be a feature of the design of the phone and I, the user, would not even have a choice in that implementation. The primary motive of that design would be against thieves, but it would incidentally happen to work on judges as well. The owners of the phones would have no choice.

It doesn’t matter. Judges don’t care and they have very broad authority to get what they want. You’re not getting off on a technicality. It’s that simple.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#688

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 12:04 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #191

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

[deleted]

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#689

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 12:05 PM UTC

seppin wrote: post #161

alistairSH wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm old too. I used to keep work email and calendar on my personal phone. A few years later, I disabled the email because it distracted from life. I leave the calendar simply to let me know when I have an early meeting (my day normally begins at 9, but work with teams in India, so occasionally have earlier meetings).

I wish there was a cal sync different from mail and the rest. Having to login to a secure device to check meetings for the next morning in an annoying ritual.

My office allows the standard iPhone apps to connect to Exchsnge. I don’t see a profile installed on the phone. As far as I can tell, the only change is a required PIN (which I would have anyways).

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#690

Post by MaxBarraclough » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 12:19 PM UTC

As an aside, I really dislike this pattern of deliberately misleading headline.

Make it appear that you're asserting a point of fact, Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, knowing that's how the reader will read it, then modify it at the last minute to dial down your commitment to the claim, with US labor board alleges.

You'd never use this structure in conversation, you'd just say it the natural way, US labor board alleges Google illegally spied on workers before firing them.

Unfortunately even the BBC uses this style sometimes.