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Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

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Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#21

Post by brandall10 »

ncmncm wrote: post #8
howlgarnish wrote: post #2

We need a contest to come up with the most plausible album for "Never Mind the Manganese Ore Export Quotas, Here’re the Enjoyable Popular Music Boys."

For those too young to remember or were asleep in Music History, this is a play on "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols". The Sex Pistols was a British punk band, a project of Malcolm McLaren fronted by Sid Vicious (John Ritchie) and Johnny Rotten (Johnny Lydon), who enjoyed needling then-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, who badly deserved it.

I’m a little stunned the reference is not obvious to a reasonably well educated person over the age of 20.

I was a baby when this album came out and knew who they were by the time I was probably 10 or so, despite the fact they had been long broken up. This is one of the most influential bands in rock music history... for an adult to be unaware, would almost be like a younger version of myself to be clueless about who Buddy Holly was.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#22

Post by citizenkeen »

brandall10 wrote: post #21
ncmncm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those too young to remember or were asleep in Music History, this is a play on "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols". The Sex Pistols was a British punk band, a project of Malcolm McLaren fronted by Sid Vicious (John Ritchie) and Johnny Rotten (Johnny Lydon), who enjoyed needling then-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, who badly deserved it.

I’m a little stunned the reference is not obvious to a reasonably well educated person over the age of 20. I was a baby when this album came out and knew who they were by the time I was probably 10 or so, despite the fact they had been long broken up. This is one of the most influential bands in rock music history... for an adult to be unaware, would almost be like a younger version of myself to be clueless about who…

I'll cop to not getting the reference. I'm 38, overly educated in the liberal arts, reasonably well read. My recent text threads include jokes about Herodotus, Bartleby, Frankie Valli, Jason Derulo, and Belle Delphine.

Sometimes you're just in the tail end of the lucky 10,000.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#23

Post by brandall10 »

citizenkeen wrote: post #22
brandall10 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a little stunned the reference is not obvious to a reasonably well educated person over the age of 20. I was a baby when this album came out and knew who they were by the time I was probably 10 or so, despite the fact they had been long broken up. This is one of the most influential bands in rock music history... for an adult to be unaware, would almost be like a younger version of myself to be clueless about who…

I'll cop to not getting the reference. I'm 38, overly educated in the liberal arts, reasonably well read. My recent text threads include jokes about Herodotus, Bartleby, Frankie Valli, Jason Derulo, and Belle Delphine. Sometimes you're just in the tail end of the lucky 10,000.

On an individual level, it’s hard to argue with what a person knows or doesn’t. Regarding my assertion about the band’s relevance and impact in popular culture, wikipedia says the following:

On the band -

“Although their initial career lasted just two and a half years, they are regarded as one of the most groundbreaking acts in the history of popular music.”

On the album -

“It is frequently listed as the most influential punk album, and one of the most important albums of all time... In 1987, Rolling Stone magazine named the album the second best of the previous 20 years, behind only the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. The same magazine named it 41st on their list of 500 greatest albums of all time in 2003, maintaining the position in its updated 2012 list. In 2006, it was chosen by Time magazine as one of the 100 greatest albums ever.“

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#24

Post by UncleSlacky »

pjc50 wrote: post #18

> What To Expect From Moscow Under Gorbachev: ... First moves will be to revitalize Soviet economy, end the arms race, and get Mrs. G a charge account at Neiman Marcus. Two out of three ain't bad. > Don’t blubber. You’re guilty as hell of violating whales Little joke there - but a very important issue as the USSR was a major factor in almost making whales extinct, and for very little economic gain to themselves. > Av…

> Burkina Faso: important once, I cannot remember why

Probably because at the time it was in danger of becoming a successful socialist country (under then-president Thomas Sankara), a state of affairs which obviously could not be permitted to continue (Sankara was duly assassinated in 1987 by his best friend who was much more compliant to the West):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sankara

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#25

Post by Mauricebranagh »

rtpg wrote: post #11
ncmncm wrote: post #9

I have to guess that the extreme tongue-in-cheek quality of the whole presentation played on the expectation that the Soviets would have access to this, themselves, before the meeting, and would find it very difficult to read between the lines and know what it was really saying. More likely it was meant entirely for the Soviets' amusement/confusion, that they would have been obliged to pretend they had not seen, and…

The simplest explanation is that people in the US gov't act and believe this kind of stuff. It aligns with every piece of leaked private correspondence from these people, as well as public statements at the time and now. If anything the last 4 years (mostly composed of "professional politicians" despite those at the top maybe being outsiders!) should be real "mask off" to the supposed genius and amazing tradecraft of…

I am not sure what you point is here?

US diplomats (& members of the Blob) like their counter parts in the foreign service (UK) quite often use humour in internal documents.

Listen to podcasts by insiders like the bombshell's there is also a famous SIS (MI6) document about the death of Rasputin written in the style of teh Daily Mail.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#26

Post by readarticle »

pjc50 wrote: post #18

> What To Expect From Moscow Under Gorbachev: ... First moves will be to revitalize Soviet economy, end the arms race, and get Mrs. G a charge account at Neiman Marcus. Two out of three ain't bad. > Don’t blubber. You’re guilty as hell of violating whales Little joke there - but a very important issue as the USSR was a major factor in almost making whales extinct, and for very little economic gain to themselves. > Av…

Burkina Faso (French) was at war with Mali (Soviet) later that year.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#27

Post by UncleSlacky »

retSava wrote: post #6
terramex wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but it sure reads like one. > If Soviets dismantle all SS–20s, we are willing to airbrush out Gorbachev’s birthmark in US photographs

I wonder if that's some kind of cheeky remark internal between the SoS and the assistant, or if there was actually a real thought to do this. Ofc, cheap price, but seriously? Did they believe Gorbachev (spelling) was that vain? Was he? edit: also, "make the world safe for conventional warfare". Hmpf.

I've seen Soviet-era posters with his birthmark airbrushed out, so I guess it's possible.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#28

Post by readarticle »

angry_octet wrote: post #15
rtpg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest explanation is that people in the US gov't act and believe this kind of stuff. It aligns with every piece of leaked private correspondence from these people, as well as public statements at the time and now. If anything the last 4 years (mostly composed of "professional politicians" despite those at the top maybe being outsiders!) should be real "mask off" to the supposed genius and amazing tradecraft of…

It is striking how moronic and ill informed it is. When I think of all Ambassadors with grace and favour appointments it makes me grimace. The extraordinary testimony from Fiona Hill and Alex Vindman was at least reassuring that competent people were in government, even if they were being ignored.

If it’s any consolation, the US has increasingly moved its diplomatic channels out of their traditional venues into the Pentagon over the past few decades, and it’s absolutely packed to the gills with Vindmans and Hills.

While the State Department might get a new coat of paint under Biden, it’s been being “gutted” for decades.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#29

Post by aasasd »

cpach wrote: post #16
rtpg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest explanation is that people in the US gov't act and believe this kind of stuff. It aligns with every piece of leaked private correspondence from these people, as well as public statements at the time and now. If anything the last 4 years (mostly composed of "professional politicians" despite those at the top maybe being outsiders!) should be real "mask off" to the supposed genius and amazing tradecraft of…

It ought to be humour. Obviously someone took the time to come up with the title Never Mind the Manganese Ore Export Quotas, Here’re the Enjoyable Popular Music Boys . I’m pretty sure there is no actual album with that title. [Edit: Apparently the photo is from the National Lampoon, May 1978.]

In case someone doesn't know, that title is a play on the album of Sex Pistols.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#30

Post by aasasd »

brandall10 wrote: post #21
ncmncm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those too young to remember or were asleep in Music History, this is a play on "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols". The Sex Pistols was a British punk band, a project of Malcolm McLaren fronted by Sid Vicious (John Ritchie) and Johnny Rotten (Johnny Lydon), who enjoyed needling then-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, who badly deserved it.

I’m a little stunned the reference is not obvious to a reasonably well educated person over the age of 20. I was a baby when this album came out and knew who they were by the time I was probably 10 or so, despite the fact they had been long broken up. This is one of the most influential bands in rock music history... for an adult to be unaware, would almost be like a younger version of myself to be clueless about who…

It's probably one of those cases where a lot of people heard about the band, but have no idea what albums they released.
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