No matter what i will not step into any 737 Max crap until it reaches at least 10 years of stability.
Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
221–230 of 290 posts
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.
That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. That’s a good point.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.
That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.
You can't simply acculturate businesses against it- they will slowly be replaced by other businesses headed by ruthless sociopathic maximizers of shareholder value.
This is the guaranteed outcome given this way of organizing commerce. Just as if you organized everyone into medieval guilds, we would replicate the behavior of medieval guilds.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#224In a weird way, having the Max grounded during 2020 turned out to be lucky timing on Boeing's part. The airlines slowdown due to COVID likely gave them some serious breathing room while they got their shit together. Now hopefully they actually did get their shit together.
Covid’s timing was devastating for Boeing and the 737 Max. When the planes were grounded, Boeing kept producing them assuming the issue would be resolved quickly. As of January 2020, slightly before Covid, they had 400 planes built, but not delivered to customers (and so customers haven’t paid for them). Boeing was funding these aircraft with debt. All of a sudden, demand for air travel drops off a cliff. All those a…
This is true. I at least hope Boeing was able to reduce the compensation it will pay to airlines. There’s no lost income for airlines if there’s no demand for travel!
Low oil prices have also not helped the situation. Airlines need fuel efficient aircraft less than ever right now.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think I disagree. If they’d taken the time to scrap the 737 Max and move to a new design, they’d have had the time and the public would have eaten the new product up. Instead, they doubled down and are now going to try to have to sell a product that many will refuse to ever fly on, myself included.
It would have been a great time for pilots to be training on the the 737 Max as a different aircraft. The mistake with the 737 Max is that it is a simulator for pilots flying like it was a regular 737. The selling point to not have to train the pilots was the big mistake with the design.
That intention led to choices in the physical design which are less safe than they otherwise would have been. So although giving dedicated training presumably would be better than nothing, that doesn't absolve this aircraft of the significant concerns about its fundamental suitability due to the decision making approach
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but I'm not sure why it inverted. If you open the accident report ( https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/... ) and ctrl-F "rudder", you get 2,112 matches. So "reading for hours" is a distinct possibility in this case... (Oh, by the way, I didn't mean to imply you were mistaken, or anything like that. I was just so shocked that a plane's controls could invert themselves in any conceivable c…
No offense taken. I meant that if I start researching it again I’ll be up for 5 hours because of the personal ties to it. My recollection in researching this a decade ago was that the cold weather made the behavior of the rudder change (my term was invert, maybe that’s not accurate), and pilots were trying to pull up, but in fact putting the plane deeper into a nosedive. Some 25 seconds later they hit the ground at s…
> ... behavior of the rudder change (my term was invert, maybe that’s not accurate), and pilots were trying to pull up, but in fact putting the plane deeper into a nosedive.
The rudder controls yaw, not pitch. The rudder controls did invert: the pilot tries to turn slightly left, the plane turns right, so the pilot naturally tries turning harder left until the rudder is in the full right position, and they're in an uncoordinated turn. The wing on the inside of the turn starts to drop significantly or even stalls. The plane is then sideways and in a dive, and on top of that, the rudder is all the way over in the direction that makes the dive steeper. The planes quickly rolled over on their sides and went into steep dives.
My understanding is that a big break in the case came when a pilot figured out what was going on and successfully landed a plane with reversed rudder controls.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#227Don’t care. Show me real movement on the corporate mindset. The plane is a STEM engineer fixable issue. The corporate mess that pushed this across flying clearance is not. I’ll aim to fly airbus until Boeing understands that difference and fixes the root cause.
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Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, I don't see any pilots or aviation experts saying this. I think it's actually still poorly designed -- I don't think they added a third AoA sensor and used a quorum on them, as Airbus does given their own link of AoA to an automatic flight control.
Do you see lots of pilots or aviation experts saying the opposite? Are there Max pilots that have come out and said "I'm done flying that thing"?
How many airline pilots are in a position to publically say that and still keep their jobs?
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can they not make more of the previous design? Or is 100% of production capacity 737 max
I don't think previous iterations of the 737 were fundamentally safer. As there were probably other changes done to the 737 Max beyond the different engines, like improving the overall build, I do think that the fixed 737 Max should be safer than any other 737. The issue with the Max was, that a software, which should improve the handling in extreme situations, kicked in in normal conditions and the pilots failed to…
That's true but the lingering issue is that if Boeing and the FAA collaborated in pushing the broken design through certification, how many other issues can and will they cover up that the pilots don't know about? I think most want this systematic problem to get fixed as well, the MCAS at this point is as you say hopefully solved..
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Planes can be switched out last-minute. I plan to check the plane type at the gate every time I fly for the next 10 years, and if it's a MAX, I'll reschedule my flight on the spot. They claim they solved the software problem, but they didn't solve the physics problems created by the engine position (which necessitated the software in the first place).
On top of that there was a single angle of attack (AoA) sensor active that was complained about and failed hundreds of times. [1] Not only is that a single point of failure, it is more easily sabotaged or easily damaged. Besides the fact the plane has engines too big for it and needed this MCAS system simply to retrofit and route around regulations and deal with that by constantly checking the AoA to trigger nose dow…
In the original design, wasn't there an optional safety feature that added a second AoA sensor? It seems unbelievable, and is possibly one of the most ridiculous things about this whole story.
Presumably as part of the update, this optional feature has become standard?
I'd also like to see a list of all the airlines that chose not to spec the additional sensor in their initial order of the aircraft. It probably says a lot about their safety culture.