I love how hard parts of HN falls into the never 737 hysteria, even though its less probable than dying from the nearest sharp object.
How did you calculate those odds?
Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
181–190 of 290 posts
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#182Some will want to avoid flying this aircraft model.
Here are some variants > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Variants
And here are some operators > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_operators
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#183Don’t care. Show me real movement on the corporate mindset. The plane is a STEM engineer fixable issue. The corporate mess that pushed this across flying clearance is not. I’ll aim to fly airbus until Boeing understands that difference and fixes the root cause.
The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.
That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#184Why do these articles say so little about how Boeing fixed the problem? People are more likely to fly on these if they know what's different from the ones that crashed.
At least insofar as the US is concerned (and note many other regulating bodies are writing their own ADs, certifying the aircraft themselves), the FAA AD is https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf... , where the actual changes operators are required to make start on page 45.
Quoting without context:
"If on ground, do not takeoff. End of procedure."
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.
That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.
>I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.
Regulations which require engineers or their union representatives to sit on the corporate board of directors.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
The crashes wouldn't have happened with a better implementation of the same design.
Probably but now that the public is aware of a physical flaw covered up by a control mechanism the physical flaw needs to be fixed. I'm not even clear what that fix boeing used to cover up this problem. The article didn't specify, that is a red flag.
The engines being too low is not a physical flaw, and was not the cause of these crashes.
The control mechanism caused the crashes, and control mechanisms can be fixed relatively easily.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#187Do they still have the oversized new engines on an old frame design requiring software aid (MCAS) to mitigate problems at high angles of attack?
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.
That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.
There was a device invented in France in the late 1700s designed to solve that exact problem.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
That quote wasn't in the article... I suspect OP was joking, but even if they had been given a massive discount, I'm sure the contract prevents them from telling anyone else the terms...
The joke is just a little too subtle if so lol (though perhaps how it ought to be), seen some really weird arrangements during this year
The oil price can go negative then why not this.
The planes are just a cost for Boeing once they are built and they obviously need to them in the air to convince everyone that they are safe and ok to buy.
Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
,,The global fleet of nearly 400 737 MAXs flew 500,000 flights from March 2017 to March 2019, and experienced two fatal accidents for an accident rate of four per million flights when it was grounded. The previous generations of the Boeing 737 averaged 0.2 accidents per million flights.[180]'' - from Wikipedia
As it turns out, when you have a smaller set of results to work with, every point of data has outsized effect. http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/a310.htm The airbus A310 had 1.35 accidents per million flights, and for some reason people still fly in it
Consider two models of car. One was sold in large numbers in the early 90s and has proven exceptionally reliable, but obviously it's built to early 90s safety standards, and has been involved in a huge number of fatal accidents with various causes ranging from operator error to scattered manufacturing defects. However, no serious design issues ever surfaced.
The second is a 2020 model, equipped with state of the art safety features. However, its fatal accident rate is the same as the other model (though the absolute number is much smaller), and nearly every single such accident happened in the exact same way: the driver assist system, which cannot be turned off, has a nasty habit of overpowering the driver and steering into oncoming traffic. The NHTSA investigation reveals that this system was implemented hastily, using outsourced labor and cheap non-redundant components, so that the manufacturer could qualify for a tax credit. Specific concerns regarding the implementation were raised by engineers but overruled by management.
I'll take option A, thanks.