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Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

reuters.com

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Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#111

Post by ClumsyPilot »

chki wrote: post #67
londons_explore wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe they should have bit the bullet and fully redesigned the 737. If I were the EU regulator, I would have forced them to... It's a great way to screw over Boeing (American) and boost sales for Airbus (EU), while having the fairly legit rationale that you no longer have confidence in the US regulator due to a long series of blunders, and you are not happy for a major new plane design to use a decades old type rat…

Doing that would mean acting in bad faith (obviously) but also breaking WTO Rules, i.e. international law, which can come with a big price tag if your caught (potentially unlikely in such a scenario and depends on the WTO being accepted by the US, which is also not very likely). That is on top of being sued by Boeing in Court for wrongfully denying the recertification. So I'm not sure whether that would really be a c…

Well there was the whole 300% tax on Bombardier debacle, boeing got them punished without even having a competing aircraft!

https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/06/news/companies/boeing-bomba...

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#112

Post by foota »

outworlder wrote: post #73
yyy888sss wrote: post #8

Maybe they should have bit the bullet and fully redesigned the 737. Presumably future engines will be bigger still, will they just tack them onto this old design as well? At the end of the day this is just a software fix.

> Maybe they should have bit the bullet and fully redesigned the 737 That's EXACTLY what they didn't want to do. Airbus was able to do the 320Neo without a redesign. They essentially slapped new engines on it and made tiny adjustments. Boom, fuel savings. Boeing wanted to do the same. Their design didn't accommodate the bigger, more efficient engines they wanted. So they created a workaround. Redesigning essentially…

If this seems unavoidable maybe the government should require all but trivial changes to aircraft to go through the same process. That said, airplanes are still very safe even with these tragic incidents.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#113

Post by ClumsyPilot »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #94
bmitc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not really sure what you’re addressing. Preventing too big to fail doesn’t mean preemptively killing off companies.

I’m saying that, just like monopolies, there’s nothing inherently bad about being “too big to fail.” But when they do stuff wrong, we still punish them, but we don’t kill them. Break them up? Possibly.

If they are too big to fail that already is implying monopoly and unfair situation for their competitors.

It can't be good for innovation or the consumer if a giant established player is getting preferential treatment.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#114

Post by ummonk »

lukehutch wrote: post #60
DevX101 wrote: post #7

I recently had the frivolous idea of creating a flight search engine for flights that DID NOT use the 737 Max. Any actual interest in this?

Planes can be switched out last-minute. I plan to check the plane type at the gate every time I fly for the next 10 years, and if it's a MAX, I'll reschedule my flight on the spot. They claim they solved the software problem, but they didn't solve the physics problems created by the engine position (which necessitated the software in the first place).

I'm going to try to choose airlines that fly Airbus instead for a few years just to be safe.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#115

Post by Geminidog »

outworlder wrote: post #73
yyy888sss wrote: post #8

Maybe they should have bit the bullet and fully redesigned the 737. Presumably future engines will be bigger still, will they just tack them onto this old design as well? At the end of the day this is just a software fix.

> Maybe they should have bit the bullet and fully redesigned the 737 That's EXACTLY what they didn't want to do. Airbus was able to do the 320Neo without a redesign. They essentially slapped new engines on it and made tiny adjustments. Boom, fuel savings. Boeing wanted to do the same. Their design didn't accommodate the bigger, more efficient engines they wanted. So they created a workaround. Redesigning essentially…

You're not wrong but with the crashes an actual redesign is needed.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#116

Post by ClumsyPilot »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #31

I love how hard parts of HN falls into the never 737 hysteria, even though its less probable than dying from the nearest sharp object.

Well since the chance of getting cancer is ~30%, we should not even bother with traffic laws, food safety or guns - anything short of nuclear weapons is just unlikely to ever get you!

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#117

Post by gsnedders »

outworlder wrote: post #73
yyy888sss wrote: post #8

Maybe they should have bit the bullet and fully redesigned the 737. Presumably future engines will be bigger still, will they just tack them onto this old design as well? At the end of the day this is just a software fix.

> Maybe they should have bit the bullet and fully redesigned the 737 That's EXACTLY what they didn't want to do. Airbus was able to do the 320Neo without a redesign. They essentially slapped new engines on it and made tiny adjustments. Boom, fuel savings. Boeing wanted to do the same. Their design didn't accommodate the bigger, more efficient engines they wanted. So they created a workaround. Redesigning essentially…

> Boeing wanted to do the same. Their design didn't accommodate the bigger, more efficient engines they wanted. So they created a workaround.

Note that Boeing had this problem ever since the 737 Classic (the second generation 737) was introduced, hence the non-circular engine inlets they've had for decades. This cost them efficiency, at the benefit of maintaining commonality with all its advantages.

Note that last I heard Airbus was planning a clean-sheet redesign for the A320neo's successor, targeting an early 2030s introduction into service. If you allow me to speculate for a moment, Airbus is in an interesting position now having the A220 in its family: it could easily stretch the A220 to be comparable in capacity to the A320, leaving an A320 family replacement to focus on the A321 and the smaller midsize market.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#118

Post by ummonk »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #97
DevX101 wrote: post #7

I recently had the frivolous idea of creating a flight search engine for flights that DID NOT use the 737 Max. Any actual interest in this?

No, it is an irrational human fear. Hold one, humans are dumb so yes, it will be a money maker playing on that fear!

Depends on what you consider rational. E.g. flying a few hours on the pre-fixes 737 Max would have been more dangerous than driving a few hours in a car. And a cautious person can greatly reduce their risk of death in car driving by being a cautious driver.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#120

Post by awslattery »

ogre_codes wrote: post #56
jimbob45 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I disagree. If they’d taken the time to scrap the 737 Max and move to a new design, they’d have had the time and the public would have eaten the new product up. Instead, they doubled down and are now going to try to have to sell a product that many will refuse to ever fly on, myself included.

Most people don't know what manufacturer of the aircraft they are flying in, let alone the specific model. I haven't flown in quite a while, but when I did I didn't research what model aircraft I was flying in. I doubt more than a small handful of people do.

Plenty of airlines list it at time of booking, and is often accessible alongside digital boarding passes.

I specifically chose a return option from Japan last year because it was on a 787.

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