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Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#411

Post by bitL »

willcipriano wrote: post #211
MereInterest wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it great when even something as huge and life-changing as a job is subject to a contract of adhesion with no negotiation allowed? I'm sure glad to live in such a free country with great worker rights. (Sarcasm intended.)

I have no idea how those contracts are enforceable. Quit your job, move across the country and then on your first day here are nine contracts to sign, no you can't take them home we need them now. If you don't sign you are unemployed and we want that relocation money back. I used to ask potential employers when I got deep into interviews with them. "Is there any way I can see all the contracts I would need to sign on…

How about: "Hey, this is your first day, now you need to take this final difficult test and if you fail we will fire you"?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#412

Post by username90 »

gowld wrote: post #345
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google already will pay for you to have a separate corporate phone (the hardware and the data plan).

Not universally.

They will pay for a phone if they expect you to use it for company purposes. If they don't then feel free to never use your phone for your job.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#413

Post by theptip »

I'm confused, what exactly is the allegation of illegal spying? The article just says:

> Google violated US labor laws by spying on workers who were organizing employee protests, then firing two of them, according to a complaint to be filed by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) today.

And then talks about the circumstances around the firing of those employees.

> “This week the NLRB issued a complaint on my behalf. They found that I was illegally terminated for trying to help my colleagues,” Spiers said.

This also doesn't refer to spying.

Is this title/article just clickbait or is there any substantiation or further information around the "spied on workers" claim? I've done a quick bit of reading on other news sites and can't find any mention of spying elsewhere.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#414

Post by ehsankia »

caconym_ wrote: post #322
twblalock wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual negotiations are, best I can tell, way in the past. Are you kidding? Salaries have never been higher in tech. Senior engineers make more than $400k (sometimes way more) at Google and other large companies. It is likely that engineers at FAANG companies would make less money if they join a union, because the union would level…

Those high salaries aren't the result of individual negotiations, though. FAANMG+ companies pay very well, but salaries for the vast majority of engineers are determined by black box formulas, and in cases where blocs of employees think there's something unfair about their compensation (for instance, people in one location being paid more than people in another) there's absolutely nothing they can do about it. The sc…

Is it really a black box though? The majority of these companies have spreadsheets where people share their salaries, and from what I've seen, it's a fairly basic formula based on 3 factors: Level, rating and location. Yes, there's maybe a few % of wiggle in there, but generally it's fairly consistent from what I've seen.

You could argue that the way you get a rating, or even the way you get promoted are a black box, but compared to most non-tech companies, it actually tends to be quite a bit better.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#415

Post by intricatedetail »

If company wants to have your time outside work then should they pay for 24h instead of just 9-5? I find it fascinating that employees are okay with it. After 5 it shouldn't be employer business what employee do. Some even forbid you from having a second job.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#416

Post by free_rms »

Clubber wrote: post #9
JPKab wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Trump went against several sacred cows: tech, CIA, FBI, corporate news, military machine constant wars. I don't suspect we'll see any public negativity from major politicians towards those for a couple more decades, if in my lifetime. Biden is a company man, through and through. He's a lifer. Expect more of the same ole, same ole that got Trump elected in the first place. He's the "too big to fail" first choice. I ho…

Some liberals, sure, but the Liberal Establishment knows who their donor base is.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#417

Post by enraged_camel »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #191

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

Potential employees asking for special provisions in employment contracts would be a red flag. Nobody deals with tracking every employee and the slight differences in the terms they agreed to.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#418

Post by thelastwave »

cj wrote: post #324
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that the parent post was downvoted, because AFAICT it's a valid comparison. Is there something I'm missing?

In the context of starting a job at Google, I highly doubt you sign your employment contracts the day you show up for work. Typically employment contracts are signed and settled well before you enter the building as an employee. I would be surprised if the OP’s anecdote regarding the Googler pulled on the 1st day is in line with reality. Edit: apparently I’m wrong, the downvotes were deserved! I run hiring at my comp…

You seem like you have not had a lot of real job experience.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#419

Post by geofft »

MereInterest wrote: post #203
jedberg wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not. Legal doesn't want to deal with everyone having a different employment contract. Google has always leaned towards being ok with a ton of false negatives to avoid false positives. They'd rather give up 10 good hires than make one bad one. This is just an extension of that. They don't want any exceptions and they aren't willing to make any.

Isn't it great when even something as huge and life-changing as a job is subject to a contract of adhesion with no negotiation allowed? I'm sure glad to live in such a free country with great worker rights. (Sarcasm intended.)

Here's my question for everyone on this thread: what are you going to do about it?

My rough guesses of what you could do:

- unionize your shop / commit to working at unionized shops (addresses the power imbalance between individual employees and the employer by treating employees as a group)

- use the power you have as an employee to drive change at your workplace, if you're one of those employees who is well-treated by your employer and doesn't need to unionize

- advocate for stronger labor protections in law / vote for lawmakers who will create them

- advocate for existing labor/contract protections to be interpreted the way you want (e.g. advocate or vote for judges who share that interpretation, donate to or create non-profits who can file amicus briefs or write law review articles advocating for this interpretation)

If this is what's at the top of the HN discussions on a barely-related article, it's pretty clear to me that tech workers, a relatively powerful group, feel pretty strongly about this issue. So why don't we do something about it?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#420

Post by an_opabinia »

quesera wrote: post #404
shemnon42 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of a $3000 contract review if the employer's response will be "Not changing it, sign or walk."

Well, it helps you decide whether to sign, or to walk, right? But who would pay $3K for a contract review??

...someone whom Google is about to make a millionaire?
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