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Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

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Re: Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did expect to use more but covid changed that, that said, the problem I am warning others about is the the sales conversation was not accurate, but none of what was promised was in the contract in writing. Definitely my fault though for trusting that the roll over process is as simple as issuing new paperwork as portrayed by a guy who is just looking to close the deal. I have not had such a problem with other comp…

I'm confused. What are you are asking for them to do? You pre-paid for $10k of usage, with an agreement to roll-over unused credits into next year's contract. The plain definition of roll-over includes the fact that you'd have an active future account. Otherwise, they'd just say "prepay credits never expire". Imagine trying to use roll-over minutes on a phone plan where you cancelled the phone. $1k/yr seems like a ve…

The budget changed due to covid, we definitely anticipated using more than 10% in a year. Even at normal usage, we discussed with the rep that we could not finish in 1 year so what the point of a contract and he said it was easy to roll over and they will just issue new paperwork. That it would be with min. purchase was the condition that I think he should have disclosed but that's my issue for not pushing harder. That said, these new purchase min may be new policy after we signed because there seems to be newer policies that require even bigger purchases, which may or may not be disclosed at sales time/in their contracts.

My post is definitely a lesson learned and shared to others who are small and may be interested in getting better engineering support from Snowflake (a benefit of signing up that was the main reason for us that we ended up not needing) by the contract route to question their sales rep in depth and get it in the contract itself, and honestly, should just stay on demand.

Re: Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

#33
post #16

The only thing I care about here is what it said on the paper you signed up front and how carefully you analyzed it. I learned this lesson when making a $XM multi-year contract with AWS. They said "customer will be signed up for enterprise support", which we read as "customer gets enterprise support for free". Then we started getting bills for enterprise support ($1K/month). The contract said that, but was a bit vagu…

Yep same lesson. As I wrote above, we knew we could not finish the min. contract amount based on prior usage which the rep said the roll-over is great for our use case and would be fine for us to continue using them for the next year they would just issue new paperwork (I should have pushed harder on clarifying all the ins and outs of roll-over and get it into the contract). The contract is only 1 page and the only r…

> If Customer purchases additional capacity ... unconsumed Capacity will roll over ... Otherwise, purchased Capacity expires

What is vague about that?

Re: Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

#36
I've had the misfortune of dealing with Snowflake before.

Their sales team behaves in a way that I'd call predatory and pushy. Their account managers were unhelpful to the point of being opaque about how much "credits" we had, and just how that corresponded to actual value.

The whole experience, coupled with what I'd call an otherwise uninspiring product was unpleasant enough to make me want to never deal with them again.

Re: Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

#37
I assume you're aware that it is likely that Snowflake will be able to identify you based on this story and there may be a non-disparagement/non-defamation clause in the contract you signed, should they want to enforce it.

Re: Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

#38

I don't have any experience with them but I went to the pricing section on their website[0] and was greeted with very large all-caps text: PRICING: WHY PAY FOR WHAT YOU DON’T USE? PAY FOR THE COMPUTE AND STORAGE YOU ACTUALLY USE. I found that pretty funny given the problem you're running in to. [0] https://www.snowflake.com/pricing/

Only if you stay on demand, which is why I say, use Snowflake if it works for you (not knocking the product), just stay on demand. Edit to add that for those who don't believe the sales process was as misleading as I portrayed, just look at their investor earnings release from today! They really try to paint a picture that it is trivial to rollover your credits beyond your contract term and you wouldn't be anything y…

OP here, for some of the common themes/FAQs, because I am going to hop off but the original post doesn't have enough character space for me to be clear. 1. No, we obviously did not know the min. sales conditions to issue new contract after the year and the rep never mentioned this even though we explicitly discussed that we could not finish the contracted amount even at our pre-covid usage. The rep portrayed the roll-over process as simply issuing new paperwork. Had he said this is done with min. sales conditions, we would not have signed. I looked up what they have written publicly about their own roll over policy and I can only found this on their SEC filing "Customers have the flexibility to consume more than their contracted capacity during the contract term and may have the ability to roll over unused capacity to future periods, generally on the purchase of additional capacity at renewal".

What I want to point out is that the last clause does imply that some people at some point could roll over without purchasing additional capacity, so it may be that the policy of min. new purchase was made after we signed, or the rep didn't disclose the policy, or whatever. All this is to say their whole roll over policy is obviously in flux so you are at their whim even if it sounds great. The rep (I guess to convince me that the min. policy is not that bad) said newer customer are in a different bucket where their roll over can only occur by signing another purchase at the same price or higher (so if we signed later, we would have to pay 10K more to retain the 9k and so on). Hopefully these newer customers were told this or were savvier than me and got it in writing in their contracts. If you are interested in the exact text of the contract where roll over was mentioned, I posted it in a reply somewhere.

2. We signed a contract for a few reasons and the discount wasn't even the main one. We always prefer the flexibility but Snowflake promises engineering support only for those on contract, though we ended up not even needing this as we solved problems that came up ourselves and the product is pretty self explanatory. Again why I say go on demand. The discount offered for contracts is really small, much smaller than AWS for example where it's like 70% off for 3 years etc. AWS is super clear that those expire in 3 years but the discount is huge to make up for it. In Snowflake's case, I don't see the upside since roll-over is really a pain and the discount is tiny. I don't have any experience with the support to say whether having a contract is worth it for this reason, but I suspect you can probably go through generic support or solve your own issues without too many problems.

3. I have no problems so far with Snowflake as a product by itself which is why I still say if you want to use it, I just recommend doing it on demand. Especially because a lot of smaller orgs are probably drawn to their positioning of being more flexible and only pay for what you use computing, they clearly are trying to figure out how to maximize their top line and changing policies around so you are probably better off on demand.

Re: Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep same lesson. As I wrote above, we knew we could not finish the min. contract amount based on prior usage which the rep said the roll-over is great for our use case and would be fine for us to continue using them for the next year they would just issue new paperwork (I should have pushed harder on clarifying all the ins and outs of roll-over and get it into the contract). The contract is only 1 page and the only r…

> If Customer purchases additional capacity ... unconsumed Capacity will roll over ... Otherwise, purchased Capacity expires What is vague about that?

Your right it's not vague. It's pretty clear.

Add the fact that the contract was just 1 page, it seems they signed without reading. Basing their decision only on the words of the smooth talking sales rep.

They would have had my sympathy if the clause was buried within many pages of legalese.

But 1 page? Come on.

Re: Do not sign a contract with Snowflake

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep same lesson. As I wrote above, we knew we could not finish the min. contract amount based on prior usage which the rep said the roll-over is great for our use case and would be fine for us to continue using them for the next year they would just issue new paperwork (I should have pushed harder on clarifying all the ins and outs of roll-over and get it into the contract). The contract is only 1 page and the only r…

> If Customer purchases additional capacity ... unconsumed Capacity will roll over ... Otherwise, purchased Capacity expires What is vague about that?

It is the min. additional required, given they calculate capacity usage into very small units (like one of our statements was for $0.20 which is also how they position themselves), I was under the impression from the rep they could re-paper with a token amount(basically roll over without any new significant purchase, for a 10k contract, 1k is to me significant). I of course should have pushed what the new contract min might be so that is on me. But as I mentioned in my reply elsewhere details that their min. purchase policies changes and apply to different people differently, which is their prerogative, but I'm just recommending people not to trust what their sales rep portrays and if you are small, just stay on demand because they may have some huge new min. purchase requirement that is not in your contract.
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