Live data from Hacker News

Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

theverge.com

221–230 of 772 posts

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the work profile is supposed to solve that problem: you only add your corp account and install corp apps in work profile Wait until your personal phone, with its work profile, comes into scope of a work-related deposition. You'll find just how paper thin that argument is.

If they take my phone in court I'm not too concerned. I just don't want them to be able to sniff my personal profile info without me knowing.

> I just don't want them to be able to sniff my personal profile info without me knowing.

They will, and you won't. (I've been there.)

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#222
post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

100% agree. People laugh at me why I carry two phones but this is the main reason. If my employer needs me to have a mobile phone they are paying for separate device and plan. It’s a little silly I need to carry 2 phones around but it makes my life so much more convenient. Unknown call on my work phone guess I’ll answer. If it’s on my personal then it’s spam. Leave company, no need to update or port my number. Want t…

I admire you for this, I have thought about doing the same thing many times. And also making a habit of only bringing the corporate phone (and not the personal one) with me when crossing into the US for work. "Sure, feel free to search away on this phone, have at it..."

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#223
post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

Yes, this. If an employer wants me to install an app, they had better provide the hardware, too.

Also, never use employer-supplied computers for personal stuff, and don't login to your personal accounts with it. If you work at Google you can afford a laptop that you truly own.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd probably be fired if I didn't have a cell.

Then the company better being paying/providing said cell to you. If a company requires something to be used, they need to provide it.

They won't ever admit it. It's like if you were hiring someone: most people won't hire someone who doesn't have a phone number because that would be an inconvenience to them, but they can always make up another excuse for why not to hire the person.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#225

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

> by installing a rootkit

On what? A phone or laptop? They should provide the device, if so.

As long as they are providing the hardware and I'm not forced to carry it around during personal time, I don't see a problem with it; I just wouldn't log into my personal accounts with it, and maintain separate personal hardware.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#226

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

I wonder if Google legal department's hires also have that clause in their contract.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#227
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood - Android Work profile doesn't allow the employer to access any of your personal information. It keeps work and personal things separate by a wall. iOS doesn't allow that however - there the Apple will give everything over to employer if they so ask.

No, I don't misunderstand. A deposition won't care whether things are separated by a software wall. A deposition will want everything on the device. So it's better to just not mix the two at all.

Does a deposition care when you say you didn't use your personal phone for work? Why wouldn't they ask for your so-called personal phone?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#228
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities" is not a personal political opinion, it is the law.

"Googlers have the right to participate in religious services. Click here to learn more about churches in your area" It's the law you know.

Faulty analogy because it references a specific set of religions (those with churches) in the context of a workplace. If in some insane reality, Google was trying to prevent their employees from joining religions (as they were, in this case, with unions), than the first half would be fine and fully protected by law.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#229
post #7
post #3

[flagged]

> His Orangeness Please refrain from insults. Nearly half of the voters voted for him. There are plenty of his supporters here and this is offensive to them.

People shouldn't be so invested in a politician that a cheeky nickname for that politician actually offends them. This is a case of actively choosing to be offended about something.

Now, as far as HN etiquette goes, factually just referring to politicians by their name would be better. Not because nicknames are oh-so-offensive (which, by the way, implies their supporters cannot handle even nicknames...) but because neutral discussion is just more pleasant in general.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#230

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

I'm not. Legal doesn't want to deal with everyone having a different employment contract. Google has always leaned towards being ok with a ton of false negatives to avoid false positives. They'd rather give up 10 good hires than make one bad one. This is just an extension of that. They don't want any exceptions and they aren't willing to make any.

Oh I "understood" it, California is a "Right to Work" state and signing the agreement was clearly a requirement of working and by not signing the unchanged agreement, it was a voluntary action of elimination etc etc. So Google was well within their rights to rescind their job offer as they did.

That said, it was at a time where Google was complaining bitterly about how hard it was to hire engineers, and their much vaunted hiring process would only offer 1 in 10,000 applicants.

That they would have a candidate who had made it through the gauntlet, and some manager was waiting for them to show up, be turned away at the last minute based on an explicit clarification of a clause that Google, through the HR rep at the intake session, had already said was consistent with the intent of the agreement? That surprised me.

If the HR rep was speaking truthfully, then I would have expected to Google legal to just adopt the updated text in this agreement and all future agreements. It literally got tweaked at least once a year so the problem of "multiple agreements" wasn't really a problem.

So my amazement was first the cognitive dissonance between what they said and what they did, then the realization that what was written was what they meant, and thus what HR had said was a misrepresentation of the intent.

I don't know how many people have lawyers review these things, I do, but I may be unusual in that regard. My lawyer said that there were a number of things in the agreement that were unenforceable, and a few that were likely unlawful, but when they came up I would probably already be on my way out so it wasn't particularly harmful to sign. And some advice on how to avoid getting on the wrong side of the agreement and thus giving them a reason to separate me "for cause." (legal or not).

And now we have this story where the NLRB which suggests that Google is not above doing illegal things to protect their interests.

Post reply on HN