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Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

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Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#91

Post by choward »

CadellFastro wrote: post #2

What percentage of Americans even know that alcohol is a drug? As a Wisconsin native, I've seen first hand the toxic culture surrounding drinking in America, including having a relative die of alcoholism. Still, we don't seem to look at it like other drugs, even though it ruins lives just as effectively as something like heroin.

There are many drugs with many different properties. Some are medicinal, some are addictive, some are illegal, etc. They all effect people in varying negative and positive ways. The word "drugs" typically has a negative connotation since people tend to use the term "drugs" to refer to "illegal drugs". You don't really hear people calling "medicinal drugs" just "drugs"; well at least in everyday conversation.

Legal drugs are usually pushed by huge corporations with big budgets. They have heavy marketing and a lot of advertising that manipulates public opinion. All of this advertising of course portrays the "drug" in a positive way. You don't ever hear the word "drug" used in alcohol or pharmaceutical commercials.

Also, whenever a study comes out saying anything good about alcohol the media picks it up since that's what people like to hear. I'm not sure I've ever seen the news feature a study on the negative effects of alcohol. Another reason the media may focus on positive stories is that big alcohol is such a huge customer.

Any advertisement mentioning illegal drugs portrays them in a negative way since they are put out by groups that are against the drug since you can't promote a product that's illegal. So in conclusion, it's because alcohol is legal and the loads of advertising that give people such a positive view of alcohol.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#92

Post by eganist »

dekhn wrote: post #81
Ovah wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some actual numbers for risk increase. Heavy drinkers have a 5-fold increased risk of getting head and neck cancer, esofageal cancer, and 2-fold increase for liver cancer. The source also reviews colorectal, breast and head+neck cancer. My opinion as a medical professional is that these are significant, and not "very tiny amounts", of increased risk. https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk…

those are relative risks, you need to state them in absolute risk if you want people to be able to understand and make decisions. If the absolute baseline risk of getting head and neck cancer is very low, then having a 5x risk over that isn't really important- it's still absolutely small enough to say "don't care, compared to other risks". And in alcohol, there's a long list of risks that will cause the majority of d…

> you need to state them in absolute risk if you want people to be able to understand and make decisions.

I refute this on the grounds that an alarming number of people seem not to care about their own health given a 1/1000 risk of death (or worse for older or at-risk populations) from SARS-CoV-2. If half the country doesn't care about those odds, what makes us think any measurable amount of people will care about... don't know, 1/50k odds?

But I see where you're coming from. In a perfect world, you'd be right.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#93

Post by gvfdabgea »

35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #44
csours wrote: post #17

I bought a large mixing bowl, and it had a California Cancer label on the bottom. It's a regular metal bowl. If you put cancer labels on everything, people will quickly ignore them. Maybe it would be better if there was a scale on it, like this is a 1 banana equivalent risk or something, but then how do you determine my exposure to the cancer in the metal bowl.

I was curious, so I googled: https://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65/general-info/proposition... > By law, a warning must be given for listed chemicals unless exposure is low enough to pose no significant risk of cancer > the "no significant risk level” is defined as the level of exposure that would result in not more than one excess case of cancer in 100,000 individuals exposed to the chemical over a 70-year lifetime Th…

The amount of shill comments like yours and the parent surprise me less everyday.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#94

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #82
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #34

It's worth noting, but effect size is also an important bit. The Wikipedia page links to a study suggesting that around 4% of cancers are attributable to alcohol consumption [1]. In some sense, that's a lot, but in another sense, it isn't really? It's also not clear to me how much of that burden is borne by heavy drinkers vs. moderate drinkers. The studies I saw seemed to suggest a very clear causal association betwe…

It what sense is 4% of all cancer cases not a lot?

This sense: giving up a cherished vice to reduce your risk of dying of cancer by 1/25 might not be considered a good trade, depending on one's preferences.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#95

Post by snazz »

m1117 wrote: post #80

Maybe the benefit of alcohol has more value than the risk it imposes. For example, forgetting what happened yesterday, forgetting about covid and feeling great.

Uhh.... If you're getting that effect, you're drinking a lot of alcohol, and that is not healthy for you for a variety of reasons, cancer being the least of them.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#96

Post by jrwoodruff »

echelon wrote: post #63

Rule of thumb : if your food, beverage, dye, or aromatic scent readily undergoes chemical reactions, it might not be safe. Alcohol is quite chemically reactive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol#Reactions Burnt or charred food has loads of polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) that have lots of potential for chemistry (delocalized electrons = very reactive). They pose extreme cancer risk, and might be one of the most i…

I've never thought about it this way. Being very much not a chemist or biologist, are there any decent sources for reactivity of... commonly ingested things? Or any articles with more on this?

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#97

Post by Miraste »

CadellFastro wrote: post #60
GavinMcG wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment said that it ruins lives just as effectively, not that it's as addictive. Two things don't need to be equally strong or powerful to each get the job done.

That is exactly my point. Additionally, if you do want to look at things statistically, alcoholism is far more prevalent, at least in the United States, than heroin. In terms of raw number, alcoholism affects are larger range of people and arguably therefore destroys more lives.

That's hardly a correct comparison. Alcohol is far more readily available and accepted than heroin.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#98

Post by lordnacho »

advisedwang wrote: post #51

Source for all the folks asking specifically about risks: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/a... > an estimated 3.5% of cancer deaths in the United States (about 19,500 deaths) were alcohol related > Moderate drinkers have 1.8-fold higher risks of oral cavity (excluding the lips) and pharynx (throat) cancers and 1.4-fold higher risks of larynx (voice box) cancers than non-drinkers, and heavy…

My gripe with cancer stats presented in this way is that they tend to only give relative risks. It matters what the risk was in the first place.

What's the oral cavity cancer risk that I'm increasing by 80% if I drink? If it's 10% without alcohol I'll be teetotal. If it's 1/10000 I'm going to ignore the cancer risk.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#99

Post by gvfdabgea »

jiofih wrote: post #15
arkitaip wrote: post #5

The alcohol industries have done an amazing job with their propaganda. Many people genuinely believe that a glass of wine every day is actually healthy for you.

The alcohol industry you’re thinking of is more of beer and spirits. There are ton of studies showing benefits from wine, it’s not quite the same.

The propaganda runs deep.

Re: Less than half of Americans know that alcohol is a carcinogen

#100

Post by dotancohen »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #76
35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious, so I googled: https://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65/general-info/proposition... > By law, a warning must be given for listed chemicals unless exposure is low enough to pose no significant risk of cancer > the "no significant risk level” is defined as the level of exposure that would result in not more than one excess case of cancer in 100,000 individuals exposed to the chemical over a 70-year lifetime Th…

Yes, prop 65 is absurd. Pro 65 among other things requires labels on: * Parking garages * French fries - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mcdonalds-acrylamide-warni... (This sign is real; the McDonald's by my house has one) * Toast * Seaweed * Coffee has been a battleground: https://www.consumerproductslawblog.com/2019/06/what-now-cal... * Sand You would be hard pressed to find something that prop 65 does not requir…

> Yes, prop 65 is absurd.

...known to the state of Cancer to cause California...

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