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Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#111

Post by whimsicalism »

Veelox wrote: post #77
sumeno wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities" is not a personal political opinion, it is the law.

If she had used a company printer to print pro-union fliers and then shared them I'm 90% she could be fired for misuse of company resources. At to my intuition this feels like using the company printer without permission.

> If she had used a company printer to print pro-union fliers and then shared them I'm 90% she could be fired for misuse of company resources. At to my intuition this feels like using the company printer without permission.

Until Trump's NLRB overturned the precedent late last year, workers had stronger protections than getting fired for a minor slip-up in the course of organizing. But today, your intuition would be correct.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#112

Post by stuwon »

manfredo wrote: post #56
sumeno wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities" is not a personal political opinion, it is the law.

Yes, you have a right to participate in unionization and politics. But you don't have a right to alter company software to spread your political message. There's a big difference between holding a "Vote X" sign on a street corner on your own time, and using your position as a developer to put up "Vote X" signs on your company's website.

But developers at Uber and Lyft can spam drivers and riders with "Tap to support Prop 22" every time they want to use their apps with no consequence? I don't see how anyone can get upset with employees notifying fellow employees of their legal rights when the same tech companies will abuse their platforms to literally broadcast their political beliefs.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/4/21549760/uber-lyft-prop-2...

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#113

Post by playcache »

inetknght wrote: post #97
izacus wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood - Android Work profile doesn't allow the employer to access any of your personal information. It keeps work and personal things separate by a wall. iOS doesn't allow that however - there the Apple will give everything over to employer if they so ask.

No, I don't misunderstand. A deposition won't care whether things are separated by a software wall. A deposition will want everything on the device. So it's better to just not mix the two at all.

The ony way that would be possible is by them physically taking the device off you and asking for all your pin codes / passwords. The 'work profile' feature uses app-sandbox which in effects means every app runs as a Linux type isolated UID (not to differnt to a container), there is no breach around that unless some zero day attack comes to light, which would bw patched way before acme corps IT department picks it up.

They need you to hand it over. If its your personal device, you just say piss off, no you can't have it.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#114

Post by reaperducer »

observr9 wrote: post #90
Macha wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my last two employers have been similar. And given the requirements, both provide company phones. I run into coworkers who then decide to use the company phone as their only phone, because the company phone is usually the top of the line iPhone or Samsung Galaxy replaced every 2 years when their personal phone otherwise is some mid range Android or 2+ year old iPhone. Even when pointed out that the company can w…

> Even when pointed out that the company can wipe it when they leave If someone intends to leave, they can first revoke the company's access to their phone.

If someone intends to leave, they can first revoke the company's access to their phone.

If the company has the software installed to remote wipe a phone, they have the software to stop you from locking them out.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#115

Post by inetknght »

teeray wrote: post #101
izacus wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood - Android Work profile doesn't allow the employer to access any of your personal information. It keeps work and personal things separate by a wall. iOS doesn't allow that however - there the Apple will give everything over to employer if they so ask.

I would still be concerned that laws are still focused on physical things. Even if there’s a personal / work virtual barrier, I wouldn’t want the presence of work information anywhere on a personal device transmuting that device into a work device in the eyes of the law.

When vulnerabilities are found which meltdown (pun intended) those barriers perhaps it's not such a bad idea that the law is oldschool here. It's a sobering reminder that those walls are indeed only imaginary.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#117

Post by jedimastert »

inetknght wrote: post #85
fishywang wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Android, the work profile is supposed to solve that problem: you only add your corp account and install corp apps in work profile, and it's (at least supposed to be) isolated from your personal, default profile on your phone. This is even explicitly stated in work profile enabling flow. The spy activities described in the article is not about actual personal activities on the phone. One is looking at other's corp…

> the work profile is supposed to solve that problem: you only add your corp account and install corp apps in work profile Wait until your personal phone, with its work profile, comes into scope of a work-related deposition. You'll find just how paper thin that argument is.

This isn't a legal argument as much as a technical one. Work profiles prevent employers from accessing non-work-profile information

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#118

Post by scarmig »

acituan wrote: post #42
remus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is "...used internal security tools...", Not the particulars of the message she was pushing.

That is the stated reason but we all know that is not the real reason. If they added an ascii art of a dinosaur or a message on another topic to that internal security tool, they wouldn't have been fired, probably not even a slap on the wrist, at most an annoyed "take that off" request.

> we all know that is not the real reason

No, that is not true. Some of us take security seriously.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#119

Post by icelancer »

playcache wrote: post #113
inetknght wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't misunderstand. A deposition won't care whether things are separated by a software wall. A deposition will want everything on the device. So it's better to just not mix the two at all.

The ony way that would be possible is by them physically taking the device off you and asking for all your pin codes / passwords. The 'work profile' feature uses app-sandbox which in effects means every app runs as a Linux type isolated UID (not to differnt to a container), there is no breach around that unless some zero day attack comes to light, which would bw patched way before acme corps IT department picks it up…

>> They need you to hand it over. If its your personal device, you just say piss off, no you can't have it.

That's not how a subpoena works if it's on the same physical device. Good luck finding a judge who understands the concept of a "software wall."

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#120

Post by manfredo »

stuwon wrote: post #112
manfredo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have a right to participate in unionization and politics. But you don't have a right to alter company software to spread your political message. There's a big difference between holding a "Vote X" sign on a street corner on your own time, and using your position as a developer to put up "Vote X" signs on your company's website.

But developers at Uber and Lyft can spam drivers and riders with "Tap to support Prop 22" every time they want to use their apps with no consequence? I don't see how anyone can get upset with employees notifying fellow employees of their legal rights when the same tech companies will abuse their platforms to literally broadcast their political beliefs. https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/4/21549760/uber-lyft-prop-2...

Do you believe those messages were done by developers, on their own initiative? Or by company PR people whose profession is to manage public messaging? The point is, somebody used checked in code to further personal political aims. I highly doubt that is what occurred at Lyft and Uber.
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