How to Escape the Modern Rat Race • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#41

Post by offtop5 » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

>The extra you’re paying for a Porche, for example, has more to do with the message you want to convey to others, not with the usefulness of the product itself.

One of my best friends, who does better dating wise than anyone I know, drove a 98 Volvo. He was making well over 150k, but had so much quiet confidence he had no need to project anything.

I make a similar amount, still wear clothes from Old Navy and when I do own a car it's the cheapest newish one I can find.

Both me and my friend are essentially social media / online dating free. If your obsessed with trying to impress people you'll only attract those seeking to take advantage of you. The insecurity of needing to be someone makes you an easy target.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#42

Post by innagadadavida » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 6:55 PM UTC

> automobile that will help you go from point A to point B, faster

There is also the thrill factor of high acceleration - something not at all addressed by the article.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#43

Post by khalilravanna » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #29

war1025 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, you are being influenced by media, which convinces you that things are a proxy for happiness and good relationships The Fight Club line has always really resonated with me: "We work jobs we hate to buy shit we don't need" Live below your means. Tune out from all the consumerism. Suddenly you find that you have enough savings built up that you could support yourself for multiple years without working. Now you ar…

This works without kids. If you have kids, then typically you desire to give them the best available options, and that then means living in higher priced neighborhoods with higher achieving student populations. And then your kid befriends another kid whose parents are doctors/lawyers/engineers/business owners, and they want to don vacation or camp with them and you need to pony up a few hundred or thousand dollars an…

Imo it’s the same thing. It all goes back to the individual, the parent in this case. The parent needs to teach and model to the kids that a focus on wealth and material “stuff” is meaningless and leads to unhappiness. Not saying that’s easy—-it’s hard to teach yourself and live these values alone—- but it’s an extension of the same idea. It’s spreading the values out to your own personal community starting with your family. It’s a really noble goal because it has a ripple effect.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#44

Post by demadog » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

I like the article overall, but the status signaling he bemoans that everyone is doing is in fact limited to a percentage of people, most strikingly the Instagram influencer types.

Yes it’s true in any circle you want to be well regarded - such as astrophysicist PhDs trying to write the next great paper - but broadly I don’t see the posturing he’s talking about being a universal or even majority thing.

I do like the article overall and I’ve saved it, but to me it doesn’t seem to be the epidemic it’s laid out to be. Lots of people are different.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#45

Post by majormajor » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #9

I really like this point of view, but it is important to point out that the bar for happiness in life and relationships (as a proxy for "reproduction) is way below our aspirations. You aren't really trying to be like Instagram influenceres because of your "selfish gene". Your "selfish gene" would do better directing you toward fundamentalist communities where reproductive rates are higher. No, you are being influence…

Would advertising be so effective if we weren't bored?

A deficit of things we "have" to do have made boredom a common thing in modern life instead of a rarity reserved for monks or nobility. And so so many of these things we do are seeking stimulation and novelty, not reproductive success.

You have to find other answers to the "what do you want to do" and "how will you mentally satisfy yourself" problems if you opt out. They won't solve themselves.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#46

Post by polishdude20 » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

khalilravanna wrote: post #43

lotsofpulp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works without kids. If you have kids, then typically you desire to give them the best available options, and that then means living in higher priced neighborhoods with higher achieving student populations. And then your kid befriends another kid whose parents are doctors/lawyers/engineers/business owners, and they want to don vacation or camp with them and you need to pony up a few hundred or thousand dollars an…

Imo it’s the same thing. It all goes back to the individual, the parent in this case. The parent needs to teach and model to the kids that a focus on wealth and material “stuff” is meaningless and leads to unhappiness. Not saying that’s easy—-it’s hard to teach yourself and live these values alone—- but it’s an extension of the same idea. It’s spreading the values out to your own personal community starting with your…

Yeah it's not like living this sort of life without kids is good and pure but with kids it's neglect. If you raise your kid with the same mindset as you, you now have a kid who also doesn't want for much and is able to live a happy life unencumbered by needless material wants.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#47

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #32

lotsofpulp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works without kids. If you have kids, then typically you desire to give them the best available options, and that then means living in higher priced neighborhoods with higher achieving student populations. And then your kid befriends another kid whose parents are doctors/lawyers/engineers/business owners, and they want to don vacation or camp with them and you need to pony up a few hundred or thousand dollars an…

> This is fine, until you have kids I have three. If anything they have more options, they just have less concrete things.

Perhaps, but the common wisdom is to buy the "cheapest house in the best neighborhood", or "its who you know, not what you know" or "you are the friends you keep".

Maybe those aren't true, maybe they're true up to a certain point, but in my experience, people will stretch their budget to put their kids in the better schools, and the rat race starts there. This might not be an issue if you're already a dual professional household earning $200k+ or something where you're deciding between $600k vs $1M houses, but more for whether or not a $80k income family should stretch and buy a $400k house or stick to a $300k house.

(numbers aren't accurate, just trying to show that there exists a tier of society that does have to make those tough choices between living comfortably within their means and offering their kids a meaningfully higher probability of future advancement).

I used to meet people in the NYC area who commuted 1+ hour each way everyday to work 8AM to 6PM at least, they were all doing it so their kids go to the best school district they could afford. I felt sad for them since it basically meant very little time with the kids during the weekdays, no gym, no visiting friends/family, cooking, but they all did it.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#48

Post by st1x7 » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

It's ironic that the image of a rat race that came into my head after reading the title was exactly what the author proposes as an alternative at the end of the article - comparing yourself to others and constantly trying to upgrade your skills and yourself.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#49

Post by claudiulodro » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

1996 wrote: post #38

lotsofpulp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works without kids. If you have kids, then typically you desire to give them the best available options, and that then means living in higher priced neighborhoods with higher achieving student populations. And then your kid befriends another kid whose parents are doctors/lawyers/engineers/business owners, and they want to don vacation or camp with them and you need to pony up a few hundred or thousand dollars an…

> This works without kids. If you have kids, then typically you desire to give them the best available options Let me quote you one of my favorite posts: "You say 'I can't do XYZ because I have kids and a mortgage?' - well maybe you should have thought about the long term ramifications of your actions."

Long term ramifications like the continued survival of the human race or a working economy when you're old and retired? It's in society's best interest that a reasonable amount of children are born each year.

Re: How to Escape the Modern Rat Race

#50

Post by khalilravanna » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

I’m so happy I made the mistake of buying a BMW with the money from my first software engineering job. I learned in my 20s that money buys very little short term happiness. And then you’re stuck with a loan and a “cool” car that you’ve normalized into “just another car”. So happy I made that mistake early and now I can puerilely laugh with a bit of schadenfreude whenever I see an expensive car knowing the owner loved it for all of 2 weeks and now likely laments dumping a wad of cash into a hunk of depreciating metal.

On the flip side, when I see someone driving around in an old BMW they got for $3k and cleaned up themselves, I look on in awe. That’s the person to look up to. Not the person working themselves to death in a job they hate to drive a car that’s only the best for 6 months till the next year’s model comes out.