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A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

jalopnik.com

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Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#91

Post by NikolaeVarius »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #86
ashtonkem wrote: post #69

This related to, but not the same as, the mechanism by which modern torpedoes kill warships. Historically torpedoes used to hit the sides of ships, punching big holes. The response by ship builders was to build empty “torpedo bulges” on the sides of ships to trigger the torpedo early, preventing structural damage. Modern torpedoes instead detonate under the ship. The explosion creates a massive bubble (most explosive…

This is a great example of a generalization gone well beyond the end of its usefulness. This has no relation to a torpedo at all except that the localized mechanical force exceeds what the material can handle. But that's how every, cutting bending shearing, swaging, grinding, etc, etc operation works.

Hah. "They both break things by applying force. Amazing coincidence"

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#92

Post by tristanb »

parliament32 wrote: post #87
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #53

Is it possible to have Adblock on mobile? That site is literally unreadable do you the unbelievable amount of ads.

On Android, yes, Firefox lets you install extensions. On iPhone, no.

You can absolutely install an adblocker on iOS. Safari supports plugins:

https://adblockplus.org/blog/adblock-plus-for-ios-9-finally-...

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#93

Post by NikolaeVarius »

supernova87a wrote: post #62

If you ever thought tech people got paid obscene sums compared to the rest of society, just look into marine salvage, marine welding, etc. and the cost of those ships per day...

I consider underwater welders to be the real 10x engineers

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#94

Post by kingnothing »

parliament32 wrote: post #87
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #53

Is it possible to have Adblock on mobile? That site is literally unreadable do you the unbelievable amount of ads.

On Android, yes, Firefox lets you install extensions. On iPhone, no.

Adguard is available on iOS and works great.

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#95

Post by Spivak »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #86
ashtonkem wrote: post #69

This related to, but not the same as, the mechanism by which modern torpedoes kill warships. Historically torpedoes used to hit the sides of ships, punching big holes. The response by ship builders was to build empty “torpedo bulges” on the sides of ships to trigger the torpedo early, preventing structural damage. Modern torpedoes instead detonate under the ship. The explosion creates a massive bubble (most explosive…

This is a great example of a generalization gone well beyond the end of its usefulness. This has no relation to a torpedo at all except that the localized mechanical force exceeds what the material can handle. But that's how every, cutting bending shearing, swaging, grinding, etc, etc operation works.

I think it's more that "hey you might assume that ships are these big strong things that you can't just cut through but that's a misconception; they're actually weak enough they can't even support their own weight -- a fact that was exploited by torpedo designers."

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#96

Post by munificent »

mcguire wrote: post #79
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It must take an enormous amount of work to build an internal framework that can support the cut section being lifted from the side. I’m not surprised it’s taking so long so salvage. Ships have to be able to withstand substantial side forces (in both tension and compression) as part of torsional loading in normal operation. There's no internal framework needed. Even if there was that would require a stupid amount of…

Until the intern decides that running a nut up 30 feet of threaded rod is silly, uses two rods, and you have the Hyatt-Regency. :-)

Context for those who don't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse

Years ago, I was a computer science major at Tulane University. At the time, Tulane put CS in the school of engineering, so every first year had to take a mandatory engineering safety class. The first day of class, they turned off the lights and played a home movie that was recorded during the dance at the Hyatt-Regecy. The video cuts out right before the disaster, but there is audio from one of the musicians, and they played that.

Sitting in a dark room listening to a huge crash followed by screams of pain and terror fully instilled the importance of engineering safety in me. This was 20 years ago and I still remember it clearly.

Often I wish everyone had some mandatory class like that to teach them the seriousness of the consequences of our actions.

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#97

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

nradov wrote: post #34
gnu8 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The insurers of the ship and/or cargo would be paying to salvage whatever value they can extract from the wreck, to reduce their losses. You’re right about the non-zero chance of insurmountable loss, which is why the owner of the ship and the owner of the cargo would both have a shitload of insurance. Read about Lloyd’s and the shipping insurance business. People have been doing this for hundreds of years.

This salvage operation is far more expensive than the scrap value of the ship and cargo.

But less expensive than the fines they'd eventually accumulate leaving it there.

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#98

Post by wedn3sday »

ashtonkem wrote: post #69

This related to, but not the same as, the mechanism by which modern torpedoes kill warships. Historically torpedoes used to hit the sides of ships, punching big holes. The response by ship builders was to build empty “torpedo bulges” on the sides of ships to trigger the torpedo early, preventing structural damage. Modern torpedoes instead detonate under the ship. The explosion creates a massive bubble (most explosive…

Other people here are shitting on your comment, but I appreciate your random torpedo facts!

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#99

Post by jefftk »

mcguire wrote: post #79
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It must take an enormous amount of work to build an internal framework that can support the cut section being lifted from the side. I’m not surprised it’s taking so long so salvage. Ships have to be able to withstand substantial side forces (in both tension and compression) as part of torsional loading in normal operation. There's no internal framework needed. Even if there was that would require a stupid amount of…

Until the intern decides that running a nut up 30 feet of threaded rod is silly, uses two rods, and you have the Hyatt-Regency. :-)

Havens Steel Company had manufactured the rods, and they objected that the whole rod below the fourth floor would have to be threaded in order to screw on the nuts to hold the fourth-floor walkway in place. These threads would be subject to damage as the fourth-floor structure was hoisted into place. Havens Steel, therefore, proposed that two separate and offset sets of rods be used: the first set suspending the fourth-floor walkway from the ceiling, and the second set suspending the second-floor walkway from the fourth-floor walkway.

Investigators concluded that the underlying problem was a lack of proper communication between Jack D. Gillum and Associates and Havens Steel. In particular, the drawings prepared by Gillum and Associates were only preliminary sketches, but Havens Steel interpreted them as finalized drawings. Gillum and Associates failed to review the initial design thoroughly and engineer Daniel M. Duncan accepted Havens Steel's proposed plan via a phone call without performing necessary calculations or viewing sketches that would have revealed its serious intrinsic flaws—in particular, doubling the load on the fourth-floor beams.

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse

Re: A chain cuts through a capsized cargo ship filled with cars

#100

Post by daniellarusso »

vmh1928 wrote: post #30

All those cars are headed for Craigslist. "great condition, 2020 pickup, only 30 miles on the odo. salvage title."

Only slight joke.

I did see they are building a temporary recycling center for when they remove the vehicles.

Those are all probably 2019 or 2020 models, so the salvaged parts could be worth some decent money.

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