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Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

bbc.com

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Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, they are being realistic. The current UK government is riven with incompetence and cronyism. They couldn't organize a piss up a brewery.

Government is a continuum, and I don’t remember a time that it wasn’t riven with cronyism. A book came out in 2005 called The Essential Guide to Quangos and I’m willing to bet it wasn’t Blair’s government that invented them (and it certainly didn’t put a stop to them).

No government has ever or will be completely uncorrupt or efficient. Thatcher bent various rules for her shady son. Labour arranged all those dodgy PPI deals. Humans will be human. But in my 54 years on this planet and living in the UK I don't remember a government being anything like this corrupt or inefficient. Everyone politician with a brain, spine or conscience was fired and replaced by Brexit 'loyalists'. And here we are. One of the worst responses to the pandemic in the world and I don't know if I will even be able to get fresh veg in January. So much for British exceptionalism.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#322
post #94
post #71

Out of curiosity, how do people on HN rate the risk of long term side-effects?

We all are still waiting peer-reviewd scientific papers instead of press releases....

Medical isn't constrained to science. Healthcare professionals are allowed to use tradition, authority, and Art in combination with science.

It's mind boggling to Engineers to hear this, but Medicine is older than the scientific method and physicians used Regulatory capture to prevent competition.

I'd love a science based healthcare alternative.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#323

In terms of rollout. UK is the ideal country to be the first: 1. Heavily impacted by Covid-19. 2. Centralised health care system makes it easier to compare results and efficiency. E.g. it's UK which figured out that dexamethasone is efficient against Covid https://www.who.int/news/item/16-06-2020-who-welcomes-prelim... 3. Developed country with great logistics.

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Boris Johnson just recently mentioned that that would not be the case, the vaccine will not be mandatory.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#324

In terms of rollout. UK is the ideal country to be the first: 1. Heavily impacted by Covid-19. 2. Centralised health care system makes it easier to compare results and efficiency. E.g. it's UK which figured out that dexamethasone is efficient against Covid https://www.who.int/news/item/16-06-2020-who-welcomes-prelim... 3. Developed country with great logistics.

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> Boris Johnson says he strongly urges everyone to be vaccinated (jabs rolling out next week) but says it is 'no part or ambition of this country to make vaccines mandatory - that's not how we do things.'

https://twitter.com/latikambourke/status/1334106542480777216

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#325
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to have missed the extreme risk group ie those on imuno suppressants transplant patients etc.

Would the vaccine work on those groups? My understanding is that you need baseline immuno-response to develop the resistance with help of vaccine. Isn't one point of vaccination of population to protect exactly that population who can't receive the vaccination?

I'm going through the transplant pipeline right now, and I've been told to expect that it should still work, but probably at a lower effectiveness than someone not on a post-transplant drug regimen. I'm really hoping the timing works out so I can get it pre-transplant though.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#326

Do we have any more data on what the wider effectiveness of these vaccines is likely to be? Duration of immunity? I've heard a minimum of 3-4 months reported, possibly longer, but do we know more now? Am I right that we don't yet know if they reduce transmission or simply prevent the disease? If the duration of immunity turns out to only be a few months, I wonder how this is going to play out. Will we periodically va…

> Duration of immunity? I've heard a minimum of 3-4 months reported, possibly longer, but do we know more now?

The only way to know for sure is to wait and see. But patients vaccinated for SARS in ~2004 still show immune responses now and people who received the various SARS-COV-2 trial vaccines in April of this year still show immunity. There's also studies showing many people who recovered from COVID on their own have demonstrated 9 months (and counting) of immunity. The truth is that the immune system is super complex and there isn't a single simple blood test they can do to tell if a person will resist a virus or not, so a lot of the conflicting numbers you will have seen depend on what exactly was tested and the media reporting has been pretty poor at contextualizing those study results.

So there's reason to hope vaccine-derived immunity could be long lasting (say 1-10+ years), but we'll just have to see. But talk of 3-4 months of immunity seems to be media hype.

> Am I right that we don't yet know if they reduce transmission or simply prevent the disease?

Correct, we don't know yet. Pfizer unfortunately only tested people with symptoms for COVID in their trial, so we have no idea if it reduced asymptomatic cases or reduced transmission. Oxford did test thousands of people weekly in the UK to find asymptomatic cases and they have said they have "evidence" their vaccine reduces transmission, but they haven't published their peer-reviewed Phase 3 results yet so we don't know by how much. The scientific consensus seems to be that all the vaccines will probably reduce transmission by some amount, but by how much is unknown. But it stands to reason that the quicker someone clears the virus from their body, the less time they will be shedding infectious levels of virus.

> Short of eradication, if immunity is not permanent, what options do we have apart from a perpetual vaccination program or just accepting an increased rate of mortality going forward?

Luckily, this probably won't be the case. In any case, viruses tend to mutate and become less virulent over time since killing your host is a bad way to transmit yourself. So the general guess is that the virus will eventually mutate to be less lethal, similar to the how the 1918 flu virus still circulates but doesn't cause that level of mortality anymore.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the UK is in the top twenty countries in the world for logistics infrastructure. It's easy to read news stories about your country messing things up, and quietly not read foreign-language media about poorer countries messing things up a lot more by comparison, and get a biased perspective.

It's a fairly stereotypical British trait to be self deprecating. If we were singlehandedly saving the world from a rogue asteroid the general sentiment would probably be "let's hope we don't mess this up".

It’s a very English trait to think of itself as a self-deprecating, gentle and peace-loving nation while also being inordinately proud of the Empire and its conquests.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#328

I had COVID-19 early in the year, and so did my Wife (not sure about my Daughter, harder to tell with kids). I would really like to know whether I should get the vaccine or not? All the info that's out there says that immunity to C19 is temporary, so a vaccine after having gone through it doesn't seem redundant. Does anyone know if there's been any research on effects of the vaccine on the people who got C19 and reco…

I suggest you donate blood via the Red Cross [1] and get a free Covid antibody test. The presence of those antibodies should be a good indicator of whether you are still immune and that will help you decide whether or not you need the vaccine. You can do this every month or two and run your own experiment to determine the length of post-infection immunity.

[1] https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/covid-19-anti...

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#329
There are two challenges I haven't seen talked about a lot.

1. I expect that there will be a lot of people who think that once they get the shot, they can immediately stop wearing masks and practicing social distancing.

The rollout to the general public will need to be combined with extensive efforts to make sure people know that it takes time for a vaccine to actually provide protection.

In the case of this one, it is about a week after the second shot, which is three weeks after the first shot, so you should keep up all your pre-vaccination measures for a month after getting the first shot.

2. In a fair number of people, the first shot is accompanied by strong symptoms similar to a severe flu, which lasts for about a day. (I haven't read anything about whether or not this can also happen with the second shot).

The people who get that strong reaction might be reluctant to get their second shot.

The education efforts accompanying the rollout to the general public should make sure people know that there is a decent chance of such a reaction, but they will get over it in a day, and it will be worth it for the protection from COVID.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#330

Do we have any more data on what the wider effectiveness of these vaccines is likely to be? Duration of immunity? I've heard a minimum of 3-4 months reported, possibly longer, but do we know more now? Am I right that we don't yet know if they reduce transmission or simply prevent the disease? If the duration of immunity turns out to only be a few months, I wonder how this is going to play out. Will we periodically va…

> what options do we have apart from a perpetual vaccination program or just accepting an increased rate of mortality going forward?

Probably the latter, with decreasing mortality "waves" until covid basically becomes just another flu-strain.

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