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Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

bbc.com

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Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#131

Post by VBprogrammer »

apsec112 wrote: post #107
DanBC wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developed country with great logistics. Please don't under-estimate our ability to fuck this up, probably by giving the distribution contracts to a crony.

I'm sure the UK is in the top twenty countries in the world for logistics infrastructure. It's easy to read news stories about your country messing things up, and quietly not read foreign-language media about poorer countries messing things up a lot more by comparison, and get a biased perspective.

It's a fairly stereotypical British trait to be self deprecating. If we were singlehandedly saving the world from a rogue asteroid the general sentiment would probably be "let's hope we don't mess this up".

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#132

Post by refurb »

noir_lord wrote: post #56
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #46

Serious question: if you're a young person with no health issues, should you even get the vaccine?

Yes, There are two primary things to consider the Risk/Benefit to yourself and the Risk/Benefit to those around you. The answer is still yes for both cases, long term covid damage is bad at any age and so is taking out a grandparent, co-worker you like.

the Risk/Benefit to those around you

But there is a limited supply. At least in the short-term, if I get a dose, that means someone else doesn't get one.

If someone around me is at risk, then they should get vaccinated and I should defer if my risk is low.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#133

Post by fabian2k »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #46

Serious question: if you're a young person with no health issues, should you even get the vaccine?

Assuming you're somewhere between 20 and 30, your risk of dying when contracting COVID-19 is somewhere around 0.01%, so 1 in 10,000. I'm not including the chance for severe side effects, hospitalization here (I don't know a good data source for those that is age-specific).

That's a lot lower than the risk for older people, but it's still a somewhat high absolute risk.

Personally, I'd get vaccinated. The risk even for young people is still there, and it's not that low.

The source for these numbers is the following paper, specifically figure 2a:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#134

Post by waihtis »

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #87
ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your perspective extremely disturbing, and believe it empowers anti-vaxxers more than anything else.

How could it possibly empower anti vaxxers to say to trust healthcare professionals, doctors and the worlds leading security and safety experts?

I think anti-vaxx and other fringe groups are more driven by distrust in society, and by denying discussion to be had in the first place will further build anti-societal silos.

It's a difficult problem, because inevitably there will be harm initially if you allow free discussion. But over time the harm will be less in comparison to complete shutdown of any public conversation about the vaccines.

If the anti-vaxxers don't want the COVID vaccine, so be it. Let them pay with their health. That'll be the best course of action for beating down the quacks who will oppose any vaccinations.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#135

Post by Rulero »

waihtis wrote: post #20

Not sure why the posts asking for vaccine risks are getting downvoted. Pandemrix, the vaccine for swine flu, caused a notable amount of narcolepsy cases in recipients here in FIN (notable here meaning the amount of yearly cases spiked by 3-4x) and as with anything that's taken quick to market there has to be some risk of overlooking some tail events somewhere. It's not an anti-vaccine attitude, just healthy skepticis…

I suppose it's easier for people to not think independently and trust someone else to take a decision for them.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#136

Post by bealesd »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #125
Toenex wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the bulk of the population will receive the 'Oxford' vaccine. It's still going through the approval process but the UK has ordered more of it. I believe the Pfizer vaccine is targeted to front line workers and the clinical vulnerable.

Why? The 'Oxford' vaccine has been pretty shaky. Edit: source: https://www.wired.com/story/the-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-da...

I don't think it has been shaky, it has > 90% success rate (1.) when administered as a half dose followed by a full dose.

1. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/23/oxford-covid...

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#137

Post by refurb »

vore wrote: post #6
qz2 wrote: post #2

Does anyone have any non-press infested material about this vaccine? As far as I’m aware this is the first roll out of an mRNA based vaccine. While I’m no anti vaccination idiot I’d like to understand the risks to some degree.

With regards to mRNA, mRNA is a fragile molecule that is quickly broken down inside the body after injection, so there's unlikely to be much long term risk with mRNA itself.

Holy jeeze. This is why we have the FDA.

The extent to which a molecule is active in your body is only slightly correlated with toxicity. There is zero reason why a fragile molecule can't cause damage before it breaks down.

This is how ended up with thalidomide. They tested it in pregnant lab rats, but the window for birth defects is incredibly short in rats. So everything checked out.

In drug development you can't assume anything without data to back it up.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#138

Post by SubiculumCode »

rjtavares wrote: post #129
SubiculumCode wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The 'Oxford' vaccine has been pretty shaky. Edit: source: https://www.wired.com/story/the-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-da...

Source? Latest news[1] seem to indicate it's effective. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55040635

Potentially.

[1]https://www.wired.com/story/the-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-da...

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#139

Post by lbeltrame »

polytely wrote: post #78
chrisvxd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that they've been carrying out a rolling evaluation that has been going on for the duration of the trials, which has helped accelerate the normal process. Having said that, I believe the EMA (EU) also carried out a rolling evaluation, so I'm not sure what the differences are there.

From what I remember from the news yesterday the EMA will be done with the evaluation (if they don't find anything that causes concern) by the end of the month, so they aren't that far off

You are correct. The meeting for the "decision" (rather, it is a recommendation on which the European Commission acts upon) is scheduled to be December 28th at the latest.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#140

Post by Kliment »

im3w1l wrote: post #10
vore wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to mRNA, mRNA is a fragile molecule that is quickly broken down inside the body after injection, so there's unlikely to be much long term risk with mRNA itself.

Your answer is phrased in such a way that I can't help but ask: What about the other molecules in the vaccine? Are there any notable helpers or adjuvants or preservatives?

This particular vaccine is literally just a bit of RNA in a blob of fat. The fat sticks to cell membranes, and the RNA pokes through. There's nothing more to it (this is also why it's possible to scale up production so quickly)
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