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Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

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Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#281

Post by PopePompus »

doctat wrote: post #252

The logical thing to do here is to simply rebuild it, right? I mean all the infrastructure is there. Power, networking, housing, staff, etc., etc. Like there couldn’t ever be a more convenient place to drop a similar type of instrument, right? And it seems that the towers are still up, surely the anchors for the cables are no worse for wear. The actual dish itself looks to be composed of a bunch of panels that are pr…

Most radio astronomers would rather see the money spent on the SKA instead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Kilometre_Array). Looking at the epoch of reionization is where the excitement is in low frequency radio astronomy these days. I know the SKA can't replace Arecibo's radar capabilities, but the SKA will do more interesting astronomy.

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#282

Post by dvirsky »

doctat wrote: post #252

The logical thing to do here is to simply rebuild it, right? I mean all the infrastructure is there. Power, networking, housing, staff, etc., etc. Like there couldn’t ever be a more convenient place to drop a similar type of instrument, right? And it seems that the towers are still up, surely the anchors for the cables are no worse for wear. The actual dish itself looks to be composed of a bunch of panels that are pr…

It was about to be demolished anyway: https://www.npr.org/2020/11/19/936677582/world-renowned-arec...

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#283

Post by jcranmer »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #251

They knew it was coming down for months and they couldn't set up a webcam to entertain Reddit for five seconds?

Strictly speaking, it wasn't until the second cable broke about a month ago that its high risk of collapse was expected, and the engineering report itself took two weeks after the second break.

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#284

Post by raverbashing »

doctat wrote: post #252

The logical thing to do here is to simply rebuild it, right? I mean all the infrastructure is there. Power, networking, housing, staff, etc., etc. Like there couldn’t ever be a more convenient place to drop a similar type of instrument, right? And it seems that the towers are still up, surely the anchors for the cables are no worse for wear. The actual dish itself looks to be composed of a bunch of panels that are pr…

I think the question is: is an arecibo big dish observatory still a better choice for future goals than arrays of smaller dishes or maybe even some other technology?

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#285

Post by mrtksn »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #279

I was there 10 years ago. I have some video and photos from the observatory. Was pretty awesome place to visit. One of a kind in the wold. But even back then some of the panels looked damaged. Hard to imagine that an observatory of such scientific importance, would be neglected and allowed to rust away until cable break. Trump Created The Space Force, and bragged about how much money he gave Puerto Rico after the hur…

>Similar things happened during collapse of the USSR. Major scientific projects just got left behind to rust.

It's fascinating to think about it. Some projects like advanced rocket engines were salvaged by people who care and other projects like the Buran shuttle were left to rot and destroyed by petty stuff like rooftop collapse.

At the end though, maybe it's just a natural selection process. Arguably, saving the Buran might have turned into an expensive mistake considering the fate of US shuttle program.

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#286

Post by ChuckMcM »

jcranmer wrote: post #280
ChuckMcM wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: https://www.nsf.gov/about/budget/fy2019/pdf/40b_fy2019.pdf In FY2019 NSF reduced its budget for Arecibo from $8M to $6.08M a 24% reduction in support for this instrument.

It's both true that the NSF a whole is getting an increased budget and that the NSF reduced its budget for this particular instrument.

Yes, but the GP comment was saying the NSF's budget was growing (which is also true) but the GGP's comment that NSF was reducing support for Arecibo is also correct. So for context I thought it might add a bit more depth to the question of "whether or not NSF was funding Arecibo or trying to get rid of it / defund it" idea.

And personally I was surprised that for $8M a year you could fund the program (presumably that was with a bunch of clearly needed maintenance being deferred). It really is too bad that some billionaire didn't just fund it. I'm wondering if Paul Allen helped out when he was alive.

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#287

Post by fuoqi »

mrtksn wrote: post #285
dukeofdoom wrote: post #279

I was there 10 years ago. I have some video and photos from the observatory. Was pretty awesome place to visit. One of a kind in the wold. But even back then some of the panels looked damaged. Hard to imagine that an observatory of such scientific importance, would be neglected and allowed to rust away until cable break. Trump Created The Space Force, and bragged about how much money he gave Puerto Rico after the hur…

>Similar things happened during collapse of the USSR. Major scientific projects just got left behind to rust. It's fascinating to think about it. Some projects like advanced rocket engines were salvaged by people who care and other projects like the Buran shuttle were left to rot and destroyed by petty stuff like rooftop collapse. At the end though, maybe it's just a natural selection process. Arguably, saving the Bu…

Unfortunately termination of the Buran project also led to discontinuation of the Energia rocket [0]. It was quite a marvelous rocket and could've been used without Buran in the Polyus configuration. And in the late 80s there was even a modification in development with airplane-like reusable boosters.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energia

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#288

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

progman32 wrote: post #267
LeoPanthera wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one reason why it may not be worth bothering is because of the existence of FAST. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-hundred-meter_Aperture_Sp... It's bigger, more steerable, and better in (almost) every way, although one could imagine reasons why its location in China could be problematic.

FAST cannot do radar astronomy, as it has no transmitting capability. Among other things, this means FAST is less useful for tracking near-earth asteroids.

I assume that due to the rotation of the earth that when Arecibo emits a radar beam that other radio-telescopes on earth collect? Otherwise only objects within Arecibo’s relatively narrow FoV (that are also very close to earth) would be detected - so wouldn’t a purpose-built (and steerable!) radar emitter be more useful?

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#289

Post by pasttense01 »

PopePompus wrote: post #281
doctat wrote: post #252

The logical thing to do here is to simply rebuild it, right? I mean all the infrastructure is there. Power, networking, housing, staff, etc., etc. Like there couldn’t ever be a more convenient place to drop a similar type of instrument, right? And it seems that the towers are still up, surely the anchors for the cables are no worse for wear. The actual dish itself looks to be composed of a bunch of panels that are pr…

Most radio astronomers would rather see the money spent on the SKA instead ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Kilometre_Array ). Looking at the epoch of reionization is where the excitement is in low frequency radio astronomy these days. I know the SKA can't replace Arecibo's radar capabilities, but the SKA will do more interesting astronomy.

The U.S. is NOT one of the governments supporting the SKA.

Re: Arecibo Observatory Collapsed

#290

Post by sq_ »

PopePompus wrote: post #281
doctat wrote: post #252

The logical thing to do here is to simply rebuild it, right? I mean all the infrastructure is there. Power, networking, housing, staff, etc., etc. Like there couldn’t ever be a more convenient place to drop a similar type of instrument, right? And it seems that the towers are still up, surely the anchors for the cables are no worse for wear. The actual dish itself looks to be composed of a bunch of panels that are pr…

Most radio astronomers would rather see the money spent on the SKA instead ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Kilometre_Array ). Looking at the epoch of reionization is where the excitement is in low frequency radio astronomy these days. I know the SKA can't replace Arecibo's radar capabilities, but the SKA will do more interesting astronomy.

It still absolutely blows my mind that Arecibo was able to be used as an active radar to survey planets and other objects in the solar system.
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