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The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

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Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#211

Post by Baeocystin »

CalRobert wrote: post #201
tyre wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…

"I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids," Why? I think not having kids is generally seen as the most responsible course of action. I adore my two but the planet is likely to be worse off, ecologically at least, for their existence.

>I adore my two but the planet is likely to be worse off, ecologically at least, for their existence.

Our planet is already on the tail end of its lifespan, in terms of how long it will be able to support advanced life before the sun gets too hot and cooks everything.

Ours is, as best we can tell, the first and only species to arise that has enough intelligence to be able to do something about it.

If we expired as a species tomorrow, the chance of another one rising to the challenge before things wind down is (probably) very low.

We need smart, motivated people to work on the problem, and we need these people to have kids and pass on the same pro-education, pro-problem-solving cultural habits to the next generation.

In my opinion, that's worth far, far more than the extra eco burden one additional human life adds.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#212

Post by [deleted] »

tyre wrote: post #172
godot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…

When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…

[deleted]

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#213

Post by navbaker »

sandworm101 wrote: post #149
cbozeman wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the first post in this chain makes me laugh, not just at the cluelessness of this person, but that this person could be mid-30s and still think this way. I have a distant cousin that I see only at family gatherings. She's an injection molding worker for an automotive parts company (IAC). She gets one 10 minute break and one 30 minute break in an 8 hour shift. The rest of her time, she's picking up plastic car…

It isn't just the fortune 5000. I'm in the military, an organization where fitness is literally in my job description. I should be able to step away from my desk for a few minutes to exercise, but 10/20/30 minutes can be a long time when the boss needs something asap. And it is always asap. Ironically, even though I am on a base the majority of my work occurs over phone/email connections to people other locations. Co…

Once you hit the staff/command level the stress of the job combined with the lack of time to exercise due to everything being an absolute emergency really takes a toll on your health.

I was never the type to hate being in the military, but stepping away was the best decision I’ve ever made in terms of physical and mental well being.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#214

Post by kfarr »

godot wrote: post #192
thesuitonym wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have kids that same age, and our bedtime is 8:00. Usually they're asleep by 9 but there have definitely been days where they are up and fighting until well past 10. Certainly the gp was exaggerating, but just because my kids are in bed doesn't mean it's my time. 8-9 is lost policing actually being in bed almost every day. That said, I agree more with you, because as much as I like to say, "oh I could be doing x or…

Bed time used to be 8:30pm but a few weeks ago she just turned the age where she absolutely needed someone to be beside her until she falls asleep. All hell breaks loose if we don't, and I've thought about implementing cry-it-out but looking at her mode of crying I'm not sure that's healthy. Anyway, I'm staying with her for 2 hours until she falls asleep (she does take that long) because my spouse already cares for h…

Similar story here with soon to be 4yo and a new baby, bed time has been bleeding into later times and sometimes it's easier to sleep together to calm them down. It's a phase and I'm not too stressed about it, but it totally limits me time.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#215

Post by airstrike »

kaybe wrote: post #210
airstrike wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If they decide to share their personal story online, at the very least they should expect to get replies from people who may relate to it and are willing to share their own experiences for what they're worth. If they get offended by that advice, the issue is on them, not me. Also, ironically enough, your comment is actually the unsolicited advice in the thread...

I guess you're right, both comments are, since nobody asked for advice. I chose this point to invite this discussion, but could have used one of the many others in the same vein as well. What is a good reaction to someone stating their plight but not actually asking for help?

I equate someone stating their plight with asking for advice. Particularly the following

> I don't really have a good handle on what changed, or how to get back into my old sleep cycle. I just know it's annoying as hell.

In my mind, the only point in saying that is for others to empathize and share their best ideas so that OP can have "a better handle" on things. I think it's only human to respond as I did.

I do think we live in an age where people are sensitive over their interpersonal boundaries to a fault. No man is an island, and people will always give unsolicited advice—the listener can simply just choose to ignore it in which case nobody is really worse off.

Advice is almost invariably provided "as is" and with a suggested grain of salt. I don't see how it's offensive, almost by definition, as there's a distinction between being judgmental of someone and genuinely trying to help.

And for what it's worth, I don't even get offended if people judge me and don't think others should either. It's part of what defines life in a society and judging / peer pressure has a net positive effect lest we remain barbarians.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#216

Post by toxik »

InitialLastName wrote: post #177
tyre wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…

Disclaimer: I don't have kids, but I have done my share of childcare I suspect that this is one of the places we've lost out by splitting off to nuclear families with a small number of closely spaced children. Childcare is a job that, while difficult and stressful at times, is not particularly intellectually challenging, nor does it require very much expertise or physical strength. It's also relatively parallelizeabl…

While this sounds nice and good, the removal of generational living was completely intentional. Why? Because of the one thing you left out: it is the women who disproportionately end up taking care of the home and the children.

There is no real feminism with this traditional system in place. Even with the modern setup, women take care of children more _even if they don't want to_, simply because nursing takes a lot of time.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#217

Post by redisman »

Loughla wrote: post #40
umvi wrote: post #2

I find myself doing this too. My kids put such a large constraint on my free time that between work and family I only have 3 hours or less per day to do everything, so I am tempted to sacrifice sleep to gain a bit more book reading, side project, or video game time.

Why not include your family in your 'me time'? I always had my children with me when I was doing 'me things'. Including reading, video games, woodworking, hunting, hiking, and even meditation. For reference, I'm a super introverted person, and really need alone time to recharge my batteries. It's a nice way to instill values while also enjoying them while they're small. I mean, they will grow up eventually (really fa…

Anything outside I include the kiddos but I'm playing DOOM and Sekiro right now so I can't exactly have a toddler watch me decapitate demons/samurais and I'd rather have a beer etc. after the kids are sleeping. When they get older we'll probably play some Mario Kart/Minecraft style stuff together. My 'me' time is exclusively after the kids are sleeping anyway.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#218

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

godot wrote: post #161
_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…

> or anyone with a 2-year old

have been there around 18 years ago. and I think GP's point still holds. time with young kids is special in a sense that I felt it would never end. it was awesome but it was also a tunnel without a light. at least that's what it felt like. all of what you said plus the sleep deprivation, stress with the partner because there isn't enough of "us time" and the constant feeling that whatever you do it won't be enough.

the reason why GP point still holds is that one day you'll look back to all that and very likely miss every moment of that hard time you thought would never end. only in 2 years from now life will be so different that you'll likely feel "wtf did I miss out on? I was only absent minded for a moment now they're in school"

If I could turn back time the only thing I'd change is to appreciate the grind more (all the boring mundane stuff including having my hands up to the elbows in diapers and shit). I would also project a more calm image to my partner and argue less about stuff about the child that anyway sorts itself out (traveling back in time I'd still be unable tochange their stress-level but I can change my reaction to them, but coincidentally that would also reduce their stress).

looking back: these times were the best times ever. my kids are grown up now and I'm proud of them. but those moments will never return. best is that I don't even remember the hard parts. that is I only do if I actively think about it, but usually my focus is just on the good stuff. today all I got left is in my memories so I wish that I've had invested more in living in the moment. cherish the moment especially the bad ones even it friggin sucks most of the time and it seems it'll never end ...

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#219

Post by blurbleblurble »

aaron-santos wrote: post #109
egypturnash wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were in an office then your employer - or the building's landlord - would arrange for someone to fix the furnace. But your employer has now commandeered your home as your workspace during the pandemic. It's probably seeing a lot more wear and tear because of this. Are they going to pay someone to come out and fix your furnace? Probably not.

It's the same equation at play in the Uber/Lyft/auto+gig realm. A portion of the means of production[physical space, electricity, plumbing, etc.] has been shifted from being employer-owned to employee-owned while keeping other parts of the equation constant. Rather than employers bearing the cost of purchasing or maintaining these means, employees find themselves paying for these out of their wages. It might be tempt…

Keep in mind that a lot of this stuff is really owned, at the end of the day, by capitalists... in the literal sense, by institutions and individuals who command capital. Auto gig workers typically rent or lease the cars, then work to pay them off, living on precarious margins. Sure, they're responsible for maintenance, but at the end of the day, the cars will vanish if they don't make their payments. Most of us rent our houses or have mortgages on them, but they're not paid off.

Which is why people are working so much in the first place! There are payments to be made, on a strict schedule. You could lose your home and burn bridges if you don't keep up. Quite a few people actually do lose their homes and burn bridges. It's common to think of this as being their fault for being lazy.

But this whole arrangement is unsustainable for the people and for the planet.

And this is the whole point of Thomas Piketty's famous book a few years back that caused a big stir but is all but ignored by political and economic leaders in the US.

There are very good reasons why cultures before banned usury. Sure, rent and debt are powerful economic tools, but with great power comes great responsibility, and I'm still waiting for the lawmakers and business leaders where I live (the US) to go ahead and exercise that responsibility by creating sensible countermeasures to protect people from exploitation.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#220

Post by [deleted] »

godot wrote: post #161
_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…

[deleted]
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