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Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

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Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#251

Whatever happened to matrix.org/vector/riot.im/element.io? (side note: most confusing branding ever :-/). Element seemed to be picking up some momentum a few months back. There was recent news that they acquired gitter too [1]. These days I only hear about slack exodus and discord this and discord that, though. If I get it right, from all the group messengers that appeared around 6 years ago, the only one with an ope…

Matrix is doing pretty well (although I might be biased, being project lead). For instance, the entirety of the German military announced moving over to Matrix using a fork of Element a few days ago: https://sifted.eu/articles/european-armies-matrix/, and there are several other (very) major governments beyond France & Germany who are switching to Matrix in order to get end-to-end-encrypted interoperable comms that they can run themselves. Hopefully we should be able to announce them in the coming months :)

Meanwhile, we're about to finish the main milestones of making Gitter natively speak Matrix (planning to announce on Thursday), and on the FOSS side in general, Mozilla has successfully moved over entirely to Matrix for community facing work (https://matrix.org/blog/2020/03/03/moznet-irc-is-dead-long-l...), and a few other similar sized open source projects are in the process of finalising doing the same manoeuvre; watch which this space for updates. https://element.debian.social/ looks to be a thing, for instance :)

In terms of naming, it's really not hard: Matrix is the protocol; the core team set up a company called New Vector who made a flagship Matrix client called Riot, but we then renamed both the company and the app to be Element in order to simplify things. Hopefully most people have forgotten the renaming and moved on by now.

In terms of what's next for Matrix:

* Loads of effort making Element more mainstream-friendly; going through improving the UX and making it consistent cross-platform and predictable for new users. The approach we're taking is to film new users using the service, and literally tight-loop fixing the thinkos that they trip over until they stop tripping over. It sounds obvious, and we should have done it years ago, but it's starting to make a big difference. The first wave of changes ship in the next 2 weeks.

* Social login - implementing OIDC Connect to simplify onboarding if you're willing to hand over your identity to an existing identity provider (Github/Gitlab/Apple/Twitter/Google/FB)

* We're in the middle of implementing Spaces - super fun feature to define arbitrary hierarchies of rooms; a bit like discord servers, or slack workspaces, or possibly a usenet hierarchy or IMAP folder tree depending on how you squint. We're hoping to get the first cut out by the end of the year, which is super fun.

* We're also working hard on freeform threading (you too could implement HN/Reddit/Email/NNTP/Twitter on Matrix if you want!). https://github.com/matrix-org/cerulean has some details for the intrepid.

* Peer-to-Peer Matrix is going great guns; we've just finished the first cut of a new P2P overlay network called Pinecone (based on Yggdrasil, but using source routing).

* We've almost finished a wave of work to make 1:1 VoIP not suck; fixes are already shipping in Element on all platforms, but we're almost at the point where VoIP is robust and reliable rather than a quick proof-of-concept which we'd not had a chance to ever really polish.

* Finally, lots of work queued up to make end-to-end encryption more usable. Particularly, chasing bugs where encryption fails (we just fixed a major one in iOS for instance, which shipped a few days ago, thanks to the Push service extension sometimes racing with the main Element process desyncing). We're also looking at simplifying the E2EE key recovery process and just switching to using the same password to both login and decrypt your messages, rather than separate login password & security passphrases as we have today.

I could go on, but TL;DR: I think "the only one with an open protocol seems to be Matrix, but it hasn't proven to be to their advantage, apparently." is bogus. We'd just be another random open source chat webapp if it wasn't for Matrix; instead it's a global open network with 25+ million users and about 60,000 servers. So not yet as big as Email or the Web, but bigger than (say) bitcoin, and continuing to grow exponentially.

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#252

Whatever happened to matrix.org/vector/riot.im/element.io? (side note: most confusing branding ever :-/). Element seemed to be picking up some momentum a few months back. There was recent news that they acquired gitter too [1]. These days I only hear about slack exodus and discord this and discord that, though. If I get it right, from all the group messengers that appeared around 6 years ago, the only one with an ope…

After making an account a couple years ago I came back to Element a few days ago. Mostly, it's fine/good. It works as I expect text chat too, including the niceties we've come to expect by now.

One thing that really stood out to me is that you can cross-sign your device certificates! That means your chat partners don't need to verify the signatures of all your device keys, but only one. Even though this is the only good option (in my opinion), the only other messenger that does this that I'm aware of is iMessage.

I wish more people used it. Not just individually, but for their communities. There's a couple of good bridges which I intend to try, to bring my Signal/Telegram/... contacts all into one place, but you need not only the bridge, you also need to host your own homeserver and I haven't made the dive into all of that yet.

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#253

Whatever happened to matrix.org/vector/riot.im/element.io? (side note: most confusing branding ever :-/). Element seemed to be picking up some momentum a few months back. There was recent news that they acquired gitter too [1]. These days I only hear about slack exodus and discord this and discord that, though. If I get it right, from all the group messengers that appeared around 6 years ago, the only one with an ope…

I joined Element about a month ago (we're hiring! https://element.io/careers) and now that I'm on the inside, I'm genuinely optimistic about our trajectory. We're not taking over the world overnight, but we are steadily growing.

From a business perspective, data sovereignty and end-to-end encryption seem to be really potent differentiators for certain market segments, especially government. To wit, the French government has a massive Matrix deployment under the name "Tchap", and the German military began rolling out a similar initiative called "BwMessenger" last month: https://esut.de/en/2020/11/meldungen/24138/matrix-messenger-...

On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got Mozilla, who replaced their IRC network with open, federated Matrix and saw greater far greater community engagement as a result.

October also saw a commercial entity (Famedly.com) begin sponsoring the development of a third-party homeserver implemented in Rust (Conduit). So we're starting to see glimmers of a potential ecosystem around the Matrix protocol independent of Element.

We don't have the same pop culture buzz as Slack or Discord, but I absolutely think there is something of substance here.

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over what? Teams is currently eating Slacks lunch.

I'm so tired of hearing this argument. The amount of revenue generated by customers who use only Microsoft Teams without an Office365 subscription is exactly $0 [1]. MS gives you exactly 2 options to get teams: 1. Free 2. Included as part of Office365. Teams is currently eatings Slacks lunch, but the lunch was paid for by a corporate IT guy who switched to Office365 so he could lay off some IT admins and save some mo…

I don't understand. What argument are you tired of hearing? Teams has more users than Slack. Doesn't matter how/why they got them.

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low-code/no-code is a very compelling pitch to businesses that see software as cost center.

It's a compelling pitch, but when it comes to actually using low code/no code solutions... well, it's a conversation that we re-visit every few years for a reason. Everyone needs last-mile customization that requires coding and therefore some technical ability.

Sure, of course.

OP was asking how Salesforce got so huge when it has a medium-negative reputation among tech folks, and that was my answer: Management loves to hear "this will save $$$ on software"

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#256
post #170
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see IRC make a comeback but the fact is IRC on mobile is a pain in the ass. Users want persistence and IRC is designed for the opposite.

I agree. We should evolve the IRC spec to support the modern requirements of common users. Then web clients are just an addition. Call it IRC2 or anything if it offends the original IRC nerds (which I'm part of)

Well, there's IRCv3... Problem with multi-device is you need some way of authenticating multiple TCP connections as the same logical user, at which point a lot of IRC's simplicity of implementation has been lost. Whether that's a worthwhile sacrifice is a different question though; I think it might be (as a young IRC nerd).

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#257

Whatever happened to matrix.org/vector/riot.im/element.io? (side note: most confusing branding ever :-/). Element seemed to be picking up some momentum a few months back. There was recent news that they acquired gitter too [1]. These days I only hear about slack exodus and discord this and discord that, though. If I get it right, from all the group messengers that appeared around 6 years ago, the only one with an ope…

I run Matrix/Element on my self-hosted server (address in my profile) and it's great for chatting with people on the Fediverse (Mastodon/Pleroma/Peertube/etc.) as a lot of people in that world also use Matrix and have their addresses posted in their profile.

Corporations don't want to spend the manpower to run something like this, considering Slack is relatively cheap and Teams just comes with their Azure/Office365 license.

It's more for hobbyists and hacker types. If you want a nice mobile client for Matrix, try out FluffyChat. It supports room emojis!

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#259
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, I know Chime exists. But I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using it, and Slack is still rather popular. I think even Amazon realized how awful Chime is, given that they, as a company, switched to Slack just a few months ago.

Amazon is a big place and I can't speak for all of it, but while IT announced that slack was "available" a few months ago, I don't personally know anyone that has actually switched to using it. Everyone still uses Chime. That may just be a peculiarity of my department, but saying "Amazon as a company switched to slack" is definitely overstating what happened.

Know someone at Amazon in the kindle space and I say them using slack when we went to lunch today. He said his team uses it for a lot.

Re: Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Slack

#260
post #210

I ctrl + f and saw no mention of rocket chat, is it no longer trendy? Have been using for a while on prems and it sort of just works. Good on Slack I guess! A very nice exit.

Posted 2 minutes before you

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25270708

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