I don't know, everybody here got excuses, kids, boss, housework whatever. I find myself just being lazy, procrastinating and not doing what I suppose to do. Can't blame anything or anyone, it is just me.
The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
171–180 of 281 posts
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#172Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…
The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…
When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different.
I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad, undefinable “life” sense? Or that intellectualizing “take away this kid” is too emotionally fraught to even consider?
It feels amoral to ask these questions, but as I reach the time when friends are having kids and the biological clock of partners becomes a real factor, I’m not sure how to know.
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…
When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…
My experience hasn't been the same, I have two kids age 4 and 6, and my experience has been more laid back. Most of the time I spend with this kids is fun. Sure, there can be bad times that are stressful and/or exhausting but it's mostly been very rewarding.
My kids are asleep by 830 or 9pm, I'm not sure why this person feels they don't have free time until 11pm, that seems like an exaggeration to me.
Even when they are awake, they rarely occupy both my wife and I full time, unless we're choosing to spend quality time with them. Sometimes just one of us watches them while the other one had time to relax or catch up on work.
It's not like my wife and I were globetrotting before kids anyway. Having kids is far more interesting than the same old, same old routine. I don't really feel like I'm missing out on things I would have been doing before kids.
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
A question: why do you personally believe the causality is depression causes insomnia? Alternatively why do you not think that insomnia causes depression?
Personally believe...? I've been diagnosed Bipolar 1 by a psychiatrist. Primary insomnia is a known symptom of depressive episodes. Uncommon to be sure, but not unknown. And to prove it really is primary insomnia, let me walk you through the three different kinds of insomnia I deal with. 1. Anxiety-related insomnia. Rare. My brain is stuck in a feedback loop. 2. Manic insomnia. Occasionally. My brain running overcloc…
Sorry, I was just trying to grok how you understand things to help me learn. I hope I didn’t come across as attacking you.
Completely off-topic, but I am interested in the science of psychological diagnoses, because a diagnosis is usually a recognition of a cluster of symptoms, and only sometimes is a cause given.
Funnily enough, before you mentioned it, I didn’t know what ‘primary insomnia’ meant. A definition for others: “Traditionally, a distinction has been made between secondary insomnia, which arises due to another condition, and primary insomnia where a patient has problems sleeping but where there is no underlying medical cause. However, this distinction is now considered less important because:” from https://bpac.org.nz/2017/insomnia-1.aspx
Trying to understand causes is an epically hard road, as shown by the slow progress in non-psych medicine over the last century. Especially hard if your own mind is throwing roadblocks in the way (mental tar pit, manic disinformation, delusions, time 110% dedicated to surviving with no spare cycles).
All the best fortune on your journey.
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reading the first post in this chain makes me laugh, not just at the cluelessness of this person, but that this person could be mid-30s and still think this way. I have a distant cousin that I see only at family gatherings. She's an injection molding worker for an automotive parts company (IAC). She gets one 10 minute break and one 30 minute break in an 8 hour shift. The rest of her time, she's picking up plastic car…
However, that's an eight hour shift, not twelve as mentioned in the article. Eight hours of work, eight hours of sleep, and two hours of commuting and personal hygiene still leaves a full six hours per day to use however she likes. That doesn't sound too bad.
>> Eight hours of work
No. It is eight hours on shift, on the factory line. That doesn't include all the pre/post work getting to/from the line, paperwork to do and meetings to attend. All of that is probably another hour or two every day.
>> two hours of commuting and personal hygiene
We don't all live next to the factory. I'd say two hours just for commuting. As for personal hygiene, I leave it to the ladies here to comment on how much time they need to put in each day. I (military) can shower/shave in under 10 minutes when necessary, but I get to wear the same clothes every day and certainly don't worry much about my hair.
>> a full six hours per day to use however she likes.
Work emails to answer. Kids to cook for. Bills to pay. Paperwork to do. Shopping. Taking the car to the mechanic. Dentist appointments. Elderly parents to support. Carpets to vacuum. LIFE.
>>eight hours of sleep .
lol.
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…
My experience hasn't been the same, I have two kids age 4 and 6, and my experience has been more laid back. Most of the time I spend with this kids is fun. Sure, there can be bad times that are stressful and/or exhausting but it's mostly been very rewarding. My kids are asleep by 830 or 9pm, I'm not sure why this person feels they don't have free time until 11pm, that seems like an exaggeration to me. Even when they…
Out of curiosity, what’s the minimum hours per day that you must spend on keeping the kid alive and well? (Minimum hours assuming you don’t get someone else to take care of the kid.)
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…
When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…
Disclaimer: I don't have kids, but I have done my share of childcare
I suspect that this is one of the places we've lost out by splitting off to nuclear families with a small number of closely spaced children. Childcare is a job that, while difficult and stressful at times, is not particularly intellectually challenging, nor does it require very much expertise or physical strength. It's also relatively parallelizeable (the added effort of taking care of an extra simultaneous child is sublinear). Those characteristics make it a perfect job for both past-working-age people and older children.
We still utilize this dynamic some through grandparents and babysitters, but it's not nearly as prevalent as it would have been in an earlier era where multiple generations (and familial leaves) lived in a single household, with a wide range of children.
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've lived the majority of my life (mid 30s now) waiting for "my time". As expected, becoming a father cost me a lot of free time, but when I started working from home I lost my commute (usually walking, sometimes biking) and that was the one that really stung. It was only a half hour or so each way, but I used that time to catch up with friends, listen to podcasts or music, or just let my mind wander. Now I have t…
This may seem overly simple, but is it possble for you to start and end the workday with a 30 min walk? I’ve worked from home for a decade and that’s part of my routine. I go through a local park. You’d have to negotiate this with your spouse, but you were already using that time before, so in theory it ought to be reasonable. Unless your kid was born this tear that’s a but trickier. Burning out does nobody any good…
I find the easiest time to do this is at midday. It's a great way to wake you up from your after-lunch slump. The kids aren't around so no one's expecting you to help take care of them. And it's a lot easier to explain to your partner that you have to work 30min more, than it is to tell them you're heading out on your own for a walk :)
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#179Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…
> The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. ^ This people, THIS. Programmers…
> Programmers are in massive demand right now, especially skilled ones.
From the hiring side: What we're really looking for is engineers who can work efficiently and deliver results with minimal drama. Counterintuitively, it's not always the most "skilled" engineers who get the most work done. It's not even the engineers who spend 60 hours per week at the office. It's usually the above-average people who show up, get down to work, deliver code, and go home on time or even early.
One of the challenges with hiring, especially hiring more junior engineers, is that many of them have this idea that raw coding skill is the only thing that matters. We've struggled with numerous very talented engineers who simply could not deliver work on time. Some simply procrastinate excessively. Others have perfectionist tendencies, spending countless hours rewriting and refactoring code because they refuse to commit anything less than perfect code.
Meanwhile, some of our highest output engineers are the ones who know how to strike a balance between good architecture and taking on the right amount of technical debt at each step. It can upset some of the juniors when they see other people getting ahead by shipping good-enough code that gets the job done instead of something that uses the latest and greatest frameworks and languages. At the end of the day, we're in the business of shipping things to customers, not crafting the picture perfect codebase.
> You are harder to replace than you imagine. Those "must do" barriers are largely in your head, and if they are not (they really, really are) then MOVE.
From the manager side, I'm increasing seeing young engineers who have a chip on their shoulder, believing that they are irreplaceable and therefore can make the company bend to their demands. Ironically, we're not the type of company that squeezes excess hours out of people or is constantly in crunch mode, yet some engineers are permanently convinced that any employment arrangement is exploiting them or that they're permanently underpaid. I've had multiple people leave for "greener pastures", lured away by higher paychecks, only to ask to come back once they realize how good they had it here. It pays to keep your ear to the ground about better opportunities, but beware of recruiters who are experts at telling you anything and everything you want to hear in order to get you in the door.
Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…
My experience hasn't been the same, I have two kids age 4 and 6, and my experience has been more laid back. Most of the time I spend with this kids is fun. Sure, there can be bad times that are stressful and/or exhausting but it's mostly been very rewarding. My kids are asleep by 830 or 9pm, I'm not sure why this person feels they don't have free time until 11pm, that seems like an exaggeration to me. Even when they…
Ours is 3. He's winding down at 7:30 PM. That leaves 8-11 PM most evenings for my time.
I'm not going to pretend like I don't miss having 5-11 PM for myself, or the fact that weekends tend to be quite busy. But I've done the "all non-work time is _my_ time" for my previous 38 years. And I've also come to understand that the luxury of time I had previously I was also quite adept at BS'ing myself about: "I'll start that tomorrow! never starts it"
If I don't work on a side project, I understand very clearly now it is because I didn't sit down and actually do it.
It's not my son's fault, it's my own.