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The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

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Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#161

Post by godot »

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for both of us). For anyone with a 2-year old, you know that dinner time is not relaxation. It's trying to stuff food into your mouth as quickly as possible while being busy either feeding her, picking up her toys, or calming her down. Then it's dishes, maybe a little bit more toddler play time, then it's the whole routine of diapers, brushing for her, changing into pajamas, and trying to put her to sleep which takes another 2 hours.

I love both my work and my family (and my kid). But the fact is, I have no personal free time until about 11pm. If my spouse has household matters to discuss with me, that takes us to maybe 11:45pm if I'm lucky. And if I don't go to bed before 12am, I pretty much automatically get a migraine the next day. You know what? I still stay up late anyway. Sometimes it's hobby side projects, sometimes it's doing absolutely nothing but useless internet surfing. I can't even help it.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#162

Post by titanomachy »

anigbrowl wrote: post #156
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for all the demanding jobs where you need to unofficially work outside your working hours... I live in one of those countries with a reasonable working hours limit, but I'm an academic, my partner is a doctor, both of us work "voluntarily" outside working hours. I need to prepare clases, request grants, and do research in a hypercompetitive environment where you need better CV than competitors. She needs to be…

I need to prepare clases, request grants, and do research in a hypercompetitive environment where you need better CV than competitors. Not to be unsympathetic, but it's baffling to me why academics, who are mainly smart, innovative people, don't band together across disciplines to reshape their environment and wrest control out of the hands of the administrators who frequently make their life a misery.

I don't know if administrators are what make academic life difficult. It sounds to me like the parent post is saying that it's difficult because there are lots of really smart and motivated people competing at near-maximum effort for limited resources.

That matches my experience in academia. The prof in charge of our lab worked a lot because he was obsessed with the work and wanted to succeed, not because someone was cracking a whip.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#163

Post by waylandsmithers »

otikik wrote: post #5

No mention of how to get out of this unhealthy habit. I'm struggling with this myself. Some of my conclusions so far: * When I am sleep-deprived I am less productive. So I spend more time doing "work". Then I have less time for everything else I want to do (family, cooking, sport). So I take more time away from sleep. And the cycle repeats. Sleep deprivation is self-perpetuating. * What I do at night, when I am exhau…

This is going to sound strange, but the only thing that has ever worked for me was HQ, the live trivia game app. It was nightly at 9PM, so I'd my various daily tasks done and then I'd have to go to my bed to plug my phone in to play because it killed the battery. When it was over around 9:15 I was kind of settled in and would usually be able to fall asleep by 10 which is ideal for me.

So I guess if you can build in some sort of "hard stop" a little before you want to fall asleep that might work, but I haven't really found anything since.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#164

Post by redisman »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #69
otikik wrote: post #5

No mention of how to get out of this unhealthy habit. I'm struggling with this myself. Some of my conclusions so far: * When I am sleep-deprived I am less productive. So I spend more time doing "work". Then I have less time for everything else I want to do (family, cooking, sport). So I take more time away from sleep. And the cycle repeats. Sleep deprivation is self-perpetuating. * What I do at night, when I am exhau…

It's pretty clear that the "unhealthy habit", like most unhealthy habits, is a symptom not the disease. In this article the problem is being overworked. The solution isn't to remove that little bit of extra pleasure from your life so you can sleep better and be an even better, harder worker, but to find a better balance. If you have this problem is very likely because you have a major part of your life you don't feel…

Exactly. The parent comment is missing the point. People are doing it because their life would be an endless unbearable grind of work and basic bodily needs. For my mental health it's definitely a worthy trade-off, I can do the grind for a few days but it really sucks the joy out of life if you can't do anything enjoyable every day.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#165

Post by TaupeRanger »

airstrike wrote: post #96
tremon wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you close your eyes and poof there go 8 hours I wish I could say that about myself. Since a few months, I often lie awake for hours waiting for sleep to come along and poof the night away. More often than not, it takes until 3am for me to fall asleep, and I feel as broken as you might expect the next morning. I don't really have a good handle on what changed, or how to get back into my old sleep cycle. I just know it…

The first tip a "sleep doctor" will give you is to cut caffeine. Have you tried that?

Strangely enough, I drink a large cup in the morning but almost always feel very tired by mid afternoon, and find it easy (recognizing my good fortune here) to fall asleep at night. Amazing how varied biological/psychological responses can be to a single substance.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#166

Post by FalconSensei »

08-15 wrote: post #151
cbozeman wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the first post in this chain makes me laugh, not just at the cluelessness of this person, but that this person could be mid-30s and still think this way. I have a distant cousin that I see only at family gatherings. She's an injection molding worker for an automotive parts company (IAC). She gets one 10 minute break and one 30 minute break in an 8 hour shift. The rest of her time, she's picking up plastic car…

However, that's an eight hour shift, not twelve as mentioned in the article. Eight hours of work, eight hours of sleep, and two hours of commuting and personal hygiene still leaves a full six hours per day to use however she likes. That doesn't sound too bad.

Then you add cooking, laundry, dishes, cleaning the house, taking care of kids if they have...

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#168

Post by anigbrowl »

titanomachy wrote: post #162
anigbrowl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to prepare clases, request grants, and do research in a hypercompetitive environment where you need better CV than competitors. Not to be unsympathetic, but it's baffling to me why academics, who are mainly smart, innovative people, don't band together across disciplines to reshape their environment and wrest control out of the hands of the administrators who frequently make their life a misery.

I don't know if administrators are what make academic life difficult. It sounds to me like the parent post is saying that it's difficult because there are lots of really smart and motivated people competing at near-maximum effort for limited resources. That matches my experience in academia. The prof in charge of our lab worked a lot because he was obsessed with the work and wanted to succeed, not because someone was…

competing at near-maximum effort for limited resources

Yes, but why? Most academics I know are miserable and worn ragged by this endless competition. I'm asking why they don't construct a more favorable environment for themselves where they are not constantly being played off against each other. Administrators are part of that system, as opposed to being autonomous villains.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#169

Post by tuatoru »

FalconSensei wrote: post #166
08-15 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, that's an eight hour shift, not twelve as mentioned in the article. Eight hours of work, eight hours of sleep, and two hours of commuting and personal hygiene still leaves a full six hours per day to use however she likes. That doesn't sound too bad.

Then you add cooking, laundry, dishes, cleaning the house, taking care of kids if they have...

And personal fitness.

And (mainly for women, sadly) the emotional labour of communicating with relatives and with friends. Social media have increased the burden here massively.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#170

Post by airstrike »

kaybe wrote: post #159
airstrike wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first tip a "sleep doctor" will give you is to cut caffeine. Have you tried that?

I just saw a note this week that in cases like this it might be good to ask 'what have you tried?' before giving any advice. Maybe HN should get into that habit.

Why? If they decide to share their personal story online, at the very least they should expect to get replies from people who may relate to it and are willing to share their own experiences for what they're worth.

If they get offended by that advice, the issue is on them, not me.

Also, ironically enough, your comment is actually the unsolicited advice in the thread...

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