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The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

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Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#141

Post by outworlder »

toyg wrote: post #126
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for all the demanding jobs where you need to unofficially work outside your working hours... I live in one of those countries with a reasonable working hours limit, but I'm an academic, my partner is a doctor, both of us work "voluntarily" outside working hours. I need to prepare clases, request grants, and do research in a hypercompetitive environment where you need better CV than competitors. She needs to be…

You both are well-compensated for that, though. You could choose to be a mediocre academic and she could choose to be a mediocre doctor. It’s a trade-off.

Higher compensation doesn't increase a day's duration. It also won't provide you immunity to health issues.

If the only way to not be 'mediocre' is to sacrifice one's health, there's something wrong.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#142

Post by robocat »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #90
mym1990 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleeping feels so fleeting, you close your eyes and poof there go 8 hours(not to say that it isn't beneficial or necessary of course). To work 8 hours, sleep, and then work another 8 hours felt not much different than just working 16 hours with a small break in the middle. So I would stay up for a while to have fun at the expense of the next day...and probably many days thereafter.

It gets worse when sleep isn't fleeting. Waking up every two hours and then struggling to get back to sleep really draws out the misery of working long hours. Note: Before anyone tries to give me advice, my depressive episodes cause primary insomnia. Whatever you think will work, won't. It's been tried.

A question: why do you personally believe the causality is depression causes insomnia? Alternatively why do you not think that insomnia causes depression?

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#143

Post by Cactus2018 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #121
hinkley wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside. There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life. Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the pr…

Ever see the BBC series "The IT Crowd"? There is a great scene that illustrates the class differences when it comes to work and fitness. The boss is giving a speech about stress. He is head-to-toe in spandex having just commuted in on a bike. Everyone else is in office attire. Only certain people in certain jobs enjoy the luxury of mixing work and fitness. Even something as simple as having some free weights at work…

IT Crowd - I AM DECLARING WAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elrV-oHeSjE

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#144

Post by gnulinux »

toyg wrote: post #125
gnulinux wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the absolute opposite. Mornings are for endless procrastination, what can be done in 10 minutes before sleep can be done in an hour in the morning, even if I drink a lot of coffee. This is a really unhealthy habit as sometimes if the activity proves engaging, it keeps me from sleeping, obviously. What's weird is psychoactive substance rarely seem to change this productivity dynamic. Even if I'm well rested and dr…

I do the same. It’s typically a symptom that I don’t really care for the job I’m supposed to do. When I do care, I can barely brush my teeth and I’m right at work. When I don’t care, the morning is full-on procrastination; the boring but necessary stuff gets done mid-afternoon, often out of restlessness. I reckon something happens at the physical level that triggers a tiny bit of adrenaline in the afternoon, so I get…

Nah, I like my job. I'm equally unproductive on weekends on my hobbies etc. I'm just groggy in the mornings and get better in the afternoon, and after dinner I'm the sharpest and most energetic both mentally and physically.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#145

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Sharlin wrote: post #67
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the sun set! I recently took a trip to the beach and spent a half hour or so outside in the transition between full light and darkness. It was surprising how tired I was feeling as early as it was. Let yourself experience the transition to night and then limit your light exposure.

Heh, around here (61° N) the sun currently sets at about 3:15 pm or so :D Need a light therapy lamp to convince my body that no, it's not time to go to sleep yet. Paradoxically, once it's actually time to go to sleep, my brain/body suddenly refuses to feel tired! Melatonin helps, though.

Not that far north myself, but the pain is definitely real. During winter it is dark when I get up and dark when I leave work. The sun is a thing that only exists outside office windows.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#146

Post by georgeecollins »

sandworm101 wrote: post #121
hinkley wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside. There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life. Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the pr…

Ever see the BBC series "The IT Crowd"? There is a great scene that illustrates the class differences when it comes to work and fitness. The boss is giving a speech about stress. He is head-to-toe in spandex having just commuted in on a bike. Everyone else is in office attire. Only certain people in certain jobs enjoy the luxury of mixing work and fitness. Even something as simple as having some free weights at work…

Another really common real world example of the class difference. In some tech companies work in what is effectively a barn. Senior employees will say they also work in the open space. But really they sometimes reserve a particular meeting room for the whole day when they are in the office. So the barn is for the average employees, senior employees spend their time in a large office, traveling or having meals.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#147

Post by yetihehe »

amoldan wrote: post #131
tremon wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you close your eyes and poof there go 8 hours I wish I could say that about myself. Since a few months, I often lie awake for hours waiting for sleep to come along and poof the night away. More often than not, it takes until 3am for me to fall asleep, and I feel as broken as you might expect the next morning. I don't really have a good handle on what changed, or how to get back into my old sleep cycle. I just know it…

What I have observed (in my case) is that if 1. I am too tired, it actually takes longer to fall asleep. 2. If I have watched some heavy / thought provoking movie / series etc., those thoughts keep playing out in my head and then it takes longer to fall asleep. In such cases, I have devised a strategy. I have developed a fantasy of my own which I keep playing out in my head consciously. I am fast asleep before I know…

Works for me too. Some people count sheeps to sleep, I evaluate cnc machines or some mechanical contraptions.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#148

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

outworlder wrote: post #140
dandare wrote: post #138

"Privileged" European here: it is totally beyond me how can anyone be any productive on a 996 schedule. I can't write code for more than 4-6 hours a day, 5 days per week. I would probably not be a good programmer if I was born in China.

Let me tell you a secret: no one can be productive in such a regimen. It doesn't stop companies from trying. This is not just a Chinese thing. The US is not much different.

Which is so blatantly obvious it tells us something: long hours are not about productivity no matter how much anyone claims they are. Long hours are about power. Some people really want to own other people and in modern societies that shun actual slavery they seek it by other means.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#149

Post by sandworm101 »

cbozeman wrote: post #136
sandworm101 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever see the BBC series "The IT Crowd"? There is a great scene that illustrates the class differences when it comes to work and fitness. The boss is giving a speech about stress. He is head-to-toe in spandex having just commuted in on a bike. Everyone else is in office attire. Only certain people in certain jobs enjoy the luxury of mixing work and fitness. Even something as simple as having some free weights at work…

Reading the first post in this chain makes me laugh, not just at the cluelessness of this person, but that this person could be mid-30s and still think this way. I have a distant cousin that I see only at family gatherings. She's an injection molding worker for an automotive parts company (IAC). She gets one 10 minute break and one 30 minute break in an 8 hour shift. The rest of her time, she's picking up plastic car…

It isn't just the fortune 5000. I'm in the military, an organization where fitness is literally in my job description. I should be able to step away from my desk for a few minutes to exercise, but 10/20/30 minutes can be a long time when the boss needs something asap. And it is always asap.

Ironically, even though I am on a base the majority of my work occurs over phone/email connections to people other locations. Covid has only made that worse as we are to avoid in-person meeting whenever possible. I feel like a remote worker ... one that still has to commute to the office each morning.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#150

Post by Apocryphon »

dwaltrip wrote: post #119
bradlys wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t overexaggerate the facts. Programmers are /not/ in massive demand. Even skilled ones. It’s why there’s essentially no compensation growth for the last few years outside of FAANG. All growth has been through stock. The sheer massive number of people entering the field and how hard it is to get a job as an engineer should make this more obvious. If massive demand were true, we wouldn’t have ever increasingly diff…

It's hard to get your first software engineering job, but it is it any different than other industries? I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer. Do workers in other industries get constant messages via Linkedin and email for job opportunities?

They also don't get technical interviews, though.
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