250M people participate in nationwide strike in India • Hacker News Board

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#51

Post by andrewla » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

DishankZala wrote: post #44

andrewla wrote: post #30

The article is very passionate, and as a resident of the US, I don't have a lot of context here. Just wanted to dump out some of what I found when looking deeper into this. Apparently 10 major unions have called for a strike for somewhere between 11-13 points of demands [1][2][3], though all sources seem to say "12 point charter of demands". Here are the 13, the first and the last are sometimes included and sometimes…

For a resident of US and who doesn't have much context in the ground reality, your beautiful articulation of demand of FDI stoppage and others, seems a deliberate attempt a spreading misinformation. Now even hacker news is not a tool in left idealogy.

As the other reply noted, I'm just copying and pasting from the other sources. I'm not even sure what "FDI stoppage" is -- I've only just started looking at the issues here, and for what it's worth, I'd love to hear more about what FDI is, and why some people want it stopped, and why you feel that it is problematic.

I can search to get more information here, and I've been working my way through the list trying to figure out exactly what the context is for each demand, but having someone provide context inline here would make for a more interesting discussion.

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#52

Post by manquer » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

apsec112 wrote: post #45

There's been a bunch of articles on this from fringe/propaganda websites, which seem to be full of unreliable information. Here's a comment from an Indian that I found on Reddit: "I'm Indian and the stupidity in these threads is palpable. Jesus Firstly, the article cited by OP is an extremely clickbait and dishonest article To clarify -- NO. There were NOT a quarter billion people marching down the streets. The gist…

There was no "nationwide holiday" last week. I don't know what holiday you are talking about, Thanksgiving is not really a thing, until today I never heard of constitutional day.

Not being in the new cycle is less to do with newsworthiness and more to do with mainstream being either biased or unable to talk too badly about the government. While Arnab Goswami's high profile arrest recently is not good indicator, the news not really critical of the current government is pretty obvious

Characterizing Kerala as communist state is over simplifying. Kerala always ruled by coalition of small parties, Congress and CPI-M are just single largest parties in those coalitions, and many times communist parties are part of the Congress coalition and vice versa. The smaller parties are reflection of diverse backgrounds of people of Kerala- broadly top third of the state is largely Muslim, central Kerala has lot of Christians and south a lot of hindus etc. IUML(Muslim League) parties have strong presence in north part of the state for example.

"Highest unemployment in Kerala" is very mis-leading statistic, Kerala has much better reporting of such stats than many parts of the country, and also given its huge dependence on remittances from middle east and their larger participation in foreign markets for jobs is nuanced to be captured here, you travel across karnataka(your state) and kerala you would not believe Kerala has lot more unemployment.

Yes the numbers and articles are misleading, but Indian media coverage of the strike and the protest has been very poor especially in the context of 24x7 breaking news cycle.

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#53

Post by gkcgautam » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

nervous_ring wrote: post #32

gurleen_s wrote: post #25

My father was a farmer in Punjab. I have family at these protests right now. I can tell you that the anger is very real. Their livelihoods are being stripped away from them just so Modi’s friends can make a quick buck. I like free markets, but it should not have to come at the expense of those at the bottom of the chain.

Farmers have access to 24x7 free water and power supply (something I in the city don't get). They get access to free seeds, pesticides and unending loan waivers year after year. In exchange we get the worst air pollution in the world and these protests that harm the general populace more. So I ask you, what more do farmers want? Is asking for something in return for billions of dollars in tax too much?

Do you have any stats to back your statement that farmers get 24x7 free water and power supply? Majority of my family from Punjab is into farming and we've always struggled with lack of water and power. There is subsidized power supply on paper but in reality it's supplied way less than what's needed. Same is the case with water. People have to use gensets and thus spend more money than the standard power rate. We would rather pay the market rate for these and get better supply than the subsidized but poor service.

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#54

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

gurleen_s wrote: post #25

My father was a farmer in Punjab. I have family at these protests right now. I can tell you that the anger is very real. Their livelihoods are being stripped away from them just so Modi’s friends can make a quick buck. I like free markets, but it should not have to come at the expense of those at the bottom of the chain.

[deleted]

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#55

Post by blargmaster42_8 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #8

theandrewbailey wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of flags and banners with hammers and sickles?

Are votes illegitimate because the voter is a communist? Whether someone has a right to vote in a democratic system shouldn't depend on their politics or gender or race.

[dead]

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#56

Post by manquer » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #51

DishankZala wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a resident of US and who doesn't have much context in the ground reality, your beautiful articulation of demand of FDI stoppage and others, seems a deliberate attempt a spreading misinformation. Now even hacker news is not a tool in left idealogy.

As the other reply noted, I'm just copying and pasting from the other sources. I'm not even sure what "FDI stoppage" is -- I've only just started looking at the issues here, and for what it's worth, I'd love to hear more about what FDI is, and why some people want it stopped, and why you feel that it is problematic. I can search to get more information here, and I've been working my way through the list trying to fig…

Sadly even a cursory google search is now construed as astroturfing.

The ability of people to do basic research or recognize

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#57

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

manquer wrote: post #56

andrewla wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other reply noted, I'm just copying and pasting from the other sources. I'm not even sure what "FDI stoppage" is -- I've only just started looking at the issues here, and for what it's worth, I'd love to hear more about what FDI is, and why some people want it stopped, and why you feel that it is problematic. I can search to get more information here, and I've been working my way through the list trying to fig…

Sadly even a cursory google search is now construed as astroturfing. The ability of people to do basic research or recognize

Sadly, at least one person construes a google search as astroturfing. Currently that one person is downvoted, though, so... maybe it's not so bleak as you think.

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#58

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #37

disposekinetics wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people care about democracy not in the abstract procedural sense but because it tends to produce human rights respecting outcomes. We aren’t obligated to abstractly uphold democracy in the face of a majority holding Nazi symbols. The same logic should apply to other symbols of extreme oppression such as communist paraphernalia.

How does that work when (Marxist) communism is a democratic ideology? In fact, most communists (and some political philosophers) hold that capitalism and democracy are incompatible. Leninism is (in theory, maybe not in practice!) also democratic, and anti-Stalinist forms of communism are too. >but because it tends to produce human rights respecting outcomes From the communist's point of view, they agree with this - c…

Those are all fair points. But if I were a non-authoritarian Marxist, I'm not sure I'd want to use the hammer and sickle as a symbol, because too many people confuse it with authoritarian Marxism, and therefore would regard me and my position as automatically tainted.

For a political movement, symbols are not just for those on the inside...

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#59

Post by mathgorges » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

rand0mx1 wrote: post #27

such low quality article trending on hacker news. Just pick some random number like 250 million out of thin air.

The article seemed well written to me. Though I don't know enough about Indian politics to consider its accuracy.

What about this article strikes you as low quality? Do you have a better source on this news?

Re: 250M people participate in nationwide strike in India

#60

Post by puranjay » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

nervous_ring wrote: post #32

gurleen_s wrote: post #25

My father was a farmer in Punjab. I have family at these protests right now. I can tell you that the anger is very real. Their livelihoods are being stripped away from them just so Modi’s friends can make a quick buck. I like free markets, but it should not have to come at the expense of those at the bottom of the chain.

Farmers have access to 24x7 free water and power supply (something I in the city don't get). They get access to free seeds, pesticides and unending loan waivers year after year. In exchange we get the worst air pollution in the world and these protests that harm the general populace more. So I ask you, what more do farmers want? Is asking for something in return for billions of dollars in tax too much?

If seeds and pesticide weren't free, farmers would have to pass on these costs to the consumer. In a country where the poorest state has a per capita income of less than $51/month [0], even a 20% hike in food prices will hurt the weakest a great deal.

Coincidentally, the weakest often tend to be farmers themselves. Average land holding size for farmers is abysmally small - less than 3 acres - and shrinking every year [1]. The average Walmart parking lot is bigger than most farms in India.

Expecting such subsistence farmers for being "grateful" for their measly subsidies is a bit rich.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bihar

[1]: https://www.livemint.com/Politics/SOG43o5ypqO13j0QflaawM/The...