The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#101

Post by faeyanpiraat » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

I actually enjoy my current work, but get distracted super easily, then I exhaust myself doing unproductive things, and cannot get back doing anything useful.

Waking up at 7am and riding the productivity train until I can actually helps with this.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#102

Post by shakhahxhcj » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

kayodelycaon wrote: post #90

mym1990 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleeping feels so fleeting, you close your eyes and poof there go 8 hours(not to say that it isn't beneficial or necessary of course). To work 8 hours, sleep, and then work another 8 hours felt not much different than just working 16 hours with a small break in the middle. So I would stay up for a while to have fun at the expense of the next day...and probably many days thereafter.

It gets worse when sleep isn't fleeting. Waking up every two hours and then struggling to get back to sleep really draws out the misery of working long hours. Note: Before anyone tries to give me advice, my depressive episodes cause primary insomnia. Whatever you think will work, won't. It's been tried.

Ever tried mirtazapine? It’s an antidepressant that’s also a sedative. You take it every night before bed. Works great for me.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#103

Post by chefkoch » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

hvs wrote: post #6

I bet this is pretty common among parents during the pandemic. Between homeschooling/work, the only time a lot of have is late at night.

Even without the pandemic, i just need 2 hours of me time when the kids are all sleeping. As most parents know, they often don't go to sleep as easy as one wishes so my own shedule gets moved further back.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#104

Post by hinkley » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside.

There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life.

Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the previous wisdom of 20 minutes. To get a 20 minute workout you have to disappear for at least 25 minutes, and already be in a certain amount of shape to go that long. It’s miserable and your coworkers notice immediately.

7 minutes doesn’t even have to get you sweaty, so it’s 7 minutes plus however long it takes you to get where you’re going. It’s like a long bathroom break, and nobody commented on where I had gone. 1-2 of those a day and then another 10 minutes at home (or walking to and from lunch) and I was on my way to feeling a lot better.

Also for me, physical activity tends to clarify concepts and decisions I’m wrestling with. I do less work and do it better once I know what I’m doing. I can often save myself an hour and a bunch of mental energy by disappearing for 10 minutes and coming back. Even if it only worked 20% of the time, my boss still comes out way ahead.

Sharpen your saw.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#105

Post by pjmorris » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

SamBam wrote: post #50

Sharlin wrote: post #35

I mean, "me time" is not optional. How can life even be worth living if it's just a cycle of work and sleep?

That's very true. However, the activities described in the article -- "Rao would stay up surfing the internet, reading the news and watching online videos until well after midnight" -- don't sound like the kind of quality "me time" that makes life more worth living. I say this as someone trapped in a similar cycle. My wife and I are exhausted after both working from home and pandemic parenting/homeschooling every day…

To be fair, a 996 schedule (9am-9pm, 6 days a week, 72 hours/week) doesn't leave a great deal of time for, e.g., hiking, biking, walks in the park. I suspect the trouble is less a paucity of imagination than a paucity of time.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#106

Post by bradlys » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #95

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

> The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. ^ This people, THIS. Programmers…

Don’t overexaggerate the facts. Programmers are /not/ in massive demand. Even skilled ones. It’s why there’s essentially no compensation growth for the last few years outside of FAANG. All growth has been through stock. The sheer massive number of people entering the field and how hard it is to get a job as an engineer should make this more obvious. If massive demand were true, we wouldn’t have ever increasingly difficult interview practices.

There are better jobs out there if you’re getting worked to the bone but it’s not like everyone is going to get $400k and wonderful work. That’s still reserved for the top 5% of engineers.

If you’re in the bay, you have a very slim amount of options unless you got your home 30 years ago.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#107

Post by pjmorris » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

ramshorns wrote: post #11

Of course, what's actually not good for you is having to work twelve hours a day. Leisure time isn't the problem.

I was astonished to see the article treat leisure time as something to be optimized out of people's lives rather than as fundamental to their well being.

It's almost like they're trying to normalize a 6 day/72 hour week for everyone.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#108

Post by pjmorris » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

anonymousDan wrote: post #25

As a way of breaking this cycle, I've recently been considering going to bed earlier (e.g. 9-10pm), and then getting up at 5-6am, BUT with the proviso I can do whatever I want between 5 and 8, with no pressure to be productive (e.g. binge on Netflix for 3 hours). I just need to convince my wife to do the same :) Has anyone tried something like this?

That's sort of how our schedule falls out anyway, bed around 10, rise around 6, first meetings don't kick in until 9. I have a variety of side projects, chores, and just plain entertainments that go in to that 7-9 slot, chosen based on what I'd most like, or need, to do. Sometimes I just sleep in a little extra. One day I'll commute again, I'm sure, but I am really enjoying this instead.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#109

Post by aaron-santos » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #77

umvi wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I completely agree with this logic because you are saying "if I neglect in personal time, then it is in my and my employer's best interests for me to address during work time (because otherwise I will be less productive)" However, X could be a wide range of things. To use an extreme example, I could neglect fixing my furnace during personal time, and thus I can do it on my employer's dime so that I don't…

If you were in an office then your employer - or the building's landlord - would arrange for someone to fix the furnace. But your employer has now commandeered your home as your workspace during the pandemic. It's probably seeing a lot more wear and tear because of this. Are they going to pay someone to come out and fix your furnace? Probably not.

It's the same equation at play in the Uber/Lyft/auto+gig realm. A portion of the means of production[physical space, electricity, plumbing, etc.] has been shifted from being employer-owned to employee-owned while keeping other parts of the equation constant. Rather than employers bearing the cost of purchasing or maintaining these means, employees find themselves paying for these out of their wages. It might be tempting to respond with "yes, but employees have or were going to buy these anyway." But consider effects beyond the surface level, additional wear to heating and cooling machinery because the machinery would otherwise be idle while the employee was away at work, the wear of home office furniture, and the change in monthly data usage w.r.t. data caps. Some employers have recognized this shift in burden, but have most? How does this shift affect incentives?

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#110

Post by rurp » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #104

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside. There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life. Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the pr…

This is great advice and even easier to do when working remote. I have a few free weights that I keep nearby and have worked out a short and simple routine that I don't mind doing. It takes about two songs to finish, so I guess 6-8 minutes. Any time I'm starting to lag or I'm stuck on a problem I walk over and do the routine, then come back to my desk much more alert.

One nice aspect of having one (or a few) regular routines is that it's easy to see progress. Even with just a few very short sessions most days I can lift much more weight than when I started.