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Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

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241–250 of 263 posts

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#241
post #32
post #15

While the market is likely driven by fomo and manipulation, cryptocurrencies do have valuable use-cases. See this book[0] for a list of some and an explanation of how Bitcoin works. [0]: https://whycryptocurrencies.com/

Crypto is great- but BTC is a terrible crypto. Modern cryptos trade faster, with more anonymity, and more efficiently. BTC will never see mainstream transactional use- it's purely a store of value. It still has some transactional use in online black markets for ease of purchase and name recognition- but it's considered 'legacy' and moving into unreccomended and unsupported territory on most markets. I do believe that…

btc is just the value layer, it does not need to be fast or cheap chain. other chains like ethereum will be used for the more complex applications and these chains will interoperate with bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#242
post #240
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can not stabilize the block reward pays for the mining the fees are almost irrelevant. block reward halves every 4 year so the price has to double at least every 4 year. if it does not it will become lucrative to do double spends at some point. Its designed to crash some day because there is no endless doubling at constant time.

"Almost relevant" is more like it [1]. We can expect fees to dominate the block reward in about 3-4 halvings. Which will unfortunately lead to some instability [2]. [1] https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-fee_to_reward.h... [2] https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~arvindn/publications/mining_CC...

Thats simply nonsense the only way fees could ever pay for it would be if transaction become extremely expensive. You can calculate yourself how much a Tx would have to cost if it should replace the current block reward. 6.25 BTC every 10 min that's currently about 120k USD. If we assume 4200 Tx in that time which is very unlikely it would result in roughly 30 bucks per Tx if and only if the network is on max load 24/7 which basically means a way higher fee to get Tx trough in a meaningful time. ofc its possible but who would want that anyway. Tx are already moved off chain because the current fees are already too much for most transactions. Combined that with the fact that almost all people who hold, mine or otherwise use BTC do so because it gains in value. If it stops doing that there is even less reason to move BTCs around and justify high transaction costs. The sole reasons it doesn't matter now is because the average gains is so high it covers all that cost. If the gains are gone it over in the long run. A collective of user literally must spend 120k USD every 10 min to keep that thing running. That money indirectly comes from price gains there is absolutely nothing else there. The people who just want to move value "fast" and "cheap" dont need BTC they switch to whatever is the best at a time. There is no way they will do 30 bucks transactions if the alternatives can do it for fractions of a cent. Even if some hypothetical risk is higher for other coins. Some kind of insurance will cover that and wont cost 30 bucks per transaction.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#243

Bitcoin and other compute-intensive cryptocurrencies should be banned or taxed so heavily that it's financially infeasible to use them. The amount of energy being wasted (reportedly more than seven nuclear power plants worth) on what is essentially an unproductive project is quite absurd. In a world where we should all be increasingly concerned about the looming climate catastrophe, it's wholly irresponsible for Bitc…

Work proof does NOT waste energy. Get your facts together. The more energy is in Bitcoin, the stronger is its guarantee of a non-tamperable ledger. Even as it currently stands, China can change the network (I assume). Coordination is not free, rationality 101.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patio11's take: (2019) "Credit bubble? Yes, there can no longer be serious doubt about this: people bought Bitcoin with money that didn’t exist, pushing up the price of Bitcoin. A lot of people currently think they are richer than they are." https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/10/28/tether-and-bitfinex/ I'd be interested in reading a counter-take, most bitcoiners I know just look away.

Tether has accounting problems and remains a systemic risk. But this is mitigated by several factors. First, they are semi-audited and most educated guesses suggest they are collateralized one-to-one with $ at 70% or more. Second, tethers have become less systemically important over time, as other, better audited (or collateralized) stables have taken market share — this trend will likely continue. Third, tether brr…

Sources I’ve seen say Tether has been completely un-audited for years and only a fool will think they’ll keep collateral dollars for their Ponzi scheme.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#245
post #109
post #22

Can someone explain why BTC going from 13k to 20k in a month isn't the yearly pump and dump?

It's all bullshit speculation. And rich people / institutions doing whatever they can to "make money" no matter what. Am I saying crypto has no value at all and never will? No- but it's stupid that the "drive" for people to create new cryptos and hold current crypto is to uh.. make money off of it vs a currency like USD? That's stupid as hell. Crypto that is not pegged to something like USD is made for gambling and t…

The more money people throw at crypto the more risk they are taking. It’s actually the most equitable investment I know, open to almost anyone, and same return rates regardless of amount invested.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bernie Maddoff said the same thing. He also tried to create a perpetual motion machine. Bernie Madoff doesn't get to print his own currency, you see why that's different right? You know who does though? Tether. > Canada has been lending everyone $2000/month this whole time. Paying. Lending implies that it has to be returned, it does not. > Again, you don't understand what bitcoin is, nor money apparently. Incorrect…

> Bernie Madoff doesn't get to print his own currency, you see why that's different right? You know who does though? Tether. As I said, you don’t understand money. Currency is not wealth. Purchasing power cannot be printed, despite what MMT claims real wealth has to be produced using real resources. You can print all the dollars you want, in fact, that is exactly what the monopoly board game creators do. > Paying. Le…

You should really go and spend some time learning about the current monetary and fiscal systems from places other than Bitcoin subreddits.

The claim that “Purchasing power cannot be printed, despite what MMT claims real wealth has to be produced using real resources” is trivially falsifiable. The M2 money supply is 15X what it was in the 1970s but inflation caused the value to drop to 1/7th. That means net new buying power was in fact created - doubled even. The reason is you have too simplistic an understanding of money. Velocity of money matters.

There’s actually a term for excess value created through the addition of new money into the supply which eludes me right now.

> Either way, canadians are paying those $2000 back.

You have way too simplistic a take on the current financial system. Money is a social construct.

> The inflation metrics do not represent real inflation and even the FED admitted it, nor do they capture the wealth inequality even if they did.

lol, inflation is defined in terms of a specific basket of goods and services. If they want to redefine the baskets that’s fine but there’s no such thing as real inflation and fake inflation any more than there’s real math and fake math. If you want, talking about quality of life, standard of living, all that — that’s a much more interesting topic and again 100% social policy not monetary.

> Such a well managed economy right?

Yep! Well managed money supply. Well managed economy, I’m not sure Id go that far but they are two different things.

> You, the one that claims having a printing press and growing gdp faster than inflation means governments will outrun debts. Don’t shill magic beans.

You’ve hopelessly entangled a temporary medium of exchange and a long-term store of value in your brain. This has confused your understanding of economics. Spend less time in Bitcoin subreddits.

Growing gdp faster than debt does allow you never to pay it off, this principal is one that extends from personal finance. If you have an interest only loan all you ever need to pay is the interest. If the growth in the loan interest remains lower than the growth in your income (or inflation) it’s not in your interest to pay back that loan. Doing so increases opportunity cost. You get that right?

I could pay off my whole mortgage today but I won’t. Because I can do more with that money, and expect a better return than mortgage interest minus inflation. So, I refinanced. Thanks to inflation and tax deductions, my real interest rate is almost 0%.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#247
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already send money from US to Venezuela using Moneygram and several other services cheaply. There are relatively few countries where sanctions prohibit Americans from sending money, and cryptocurrency would not make this legal.

You cannot send USD to Venezuela, only Bolivars, which isn't so good as hyperinflation will kill most of the value instantly. One of the point of cryptocurrencies is that some countries may think certain things are illegal, but that doesn't make them wrong. To me helping to feed starving Venezuelans by sending them help directly is morally right, even if it was illegal.

I agree that the hyperinflation in VZ is a problem, but is that solved by Crypto? BTC's prices is highly volatile as well. In a bear market, there can be significant price slippage even while the recipient is waiting for a BTC transaction to confirm.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#248
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To date since the 1970s, on average, on an inflation adjusted dollars per square foot basis, the price of real estate in the US has not changed. It’s not really deflationary since you can always build up (except where city councils tip the scales and prevent construction like SF). Any deflationary nature is a council level imposition on an otherwise pretty neutral asset class.

By that definition Bitcoin is a neutral asset class as well since it's deflationary nature is also artificially imposed. > the price of real estate in the US has not changed. That's just ludicrous.

No, it’s well documented. [1] That data is captured by the BLS.

> By that definition Bitcoin is a neutral asset class as well since it's deflationary nature is also artificially imposed.

Deflationary is not neutral, it’s deflationary. That’s an artificial imposition of directionality. Further that’s only in isolation. Once you consider the economy expanding and contracting around it, externalities, shocks and the addition and removal of market participants - and loss of coins - its claim to neutrality is like that of a baby fighting Muhammad Ali. It requires positive control to match market conditions. It’s only neutral if you pretend the rest of the world and the economy don’t exist.

[1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/new-homes-toda...

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#249
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot send USD to Venezuela, only Bolivars, which isn't so good as hyperinflation will kill most of the value instantly. One of the point of cryptocurrencies is that some countries may think certain things are illegal, but that doesn't make them wrong. To me helping to feed starving Venezuelans by sending them help directly is morally right, even if it was illegal.

I agree that the hyperinflation in VZ is a problem, but is that solved by Crypto? BTC's prices is highly volatile as well. In a bear market, there can be significant price slippage even while the recipient is waiting for a BTC transaction to confirm.

Highly volatile, absolutely.

Yet it's nothing compared to hyperinflation. In May 2019 prices in Venezuela doubled in only two days... every day.

While Bitcoin is volatile it's relatively stable compared to what Venezuela and Lebanon are going through today.

Re: Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High of $19,786, Topping 2017 Record

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the definition of the CPI. The definition of inflation that an individual cares about is "the rise in prices of the goods that I want to buy". Asset purchases, housing, and food are my biggest expenses. YMMV. I gave some examples of consumer goods inflating in my post - restaurant meals are up about 40%, housing up about 18%, groceries have also been up about 20% since the pandemic started. Also have friends t…

Asset purchases are not inflation related. If Apple goes up because their business is doing well, that’s not inflation, that’s a good investment. You need to tease apart the performance of the underlying to even get a sense of how the money supply is impacting prices. I’d love to see a study. However simply seeing stonks go up doesn’t mean inflation. If I had to speculate the current market froth has more to do with…

Generally house prices are a ~somewhat decent proxy for asset inflation which is driven by monetary policy; I believe the low rates have definitely driven inflation in housing prices (and the gamma squeeze argument above does not apply to the housing market).

Part of the reason we've had an insane housing market valuation growth over the last ~40 years is that cost of capital has gone down from ~15% to 2.5% over that time frame. If rates were near the historical average right now, you would see very different asset prices.

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