Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory • Hacker News Board

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#61

Post by darkwizard42 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

Kephael wrote: post #36

qzw wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the IMO gold medal on his resume alone puts him into a different category. Unless the hiring company is completely clueless, he’d get special treatment from the start. People like him are not like you and me.

This is wrong, for a programming interview FAANG and friends care greatly about mitigating legal risk and would not treat them any differently. Interviewers typically have their own questions and may have only glanced at the resume.

This kind of candidate would be handheld by a very specific part of the recruiting team who would no doubt realize that they are dealing with someone VERY exceptional...

This is not to say that they would get preferential treatment in getting through the interview, but this person would not be interviewed like a regular SWE but by a specialized committee (one probably filled with more research-minded engineering staff)

Similarly, the questions would be tailored differently because the expectation of a research mind would NOT be strictly coding features / fixing bugs, but probably doing research

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#62

Post by darkwizard42 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

temp_imo wrote: post #50

MaximumYComb wrote: post #6

I was having a discussion recently in another forum where I argued that success at a Math Olympiad is a good indicator of future success. I'm not surprised to see in the slightest he won a gold medal at 16.

The math olympiad success underestimates him. I would say that in terms of mathematical abilities, Gold on the IMO tenure at a top-100 university. Aswhin will maybe be a Fields medal candidate.

I think the level of productivity he has shown in just his undergrad is crazy! I think you are right that if he holds this up it will be exciting to see what comes next.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#63

Post by darkwizard42 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

After reading this I think the most impressive piece is how productive Sah and Sawhney have been in their partnership just as undergrads!

For those reading, the work on graph theory they have done is impressive but yes...not about to change our understanding of how the world works or unlock some new technology. What is impressive is how young they are to be pursuing this level of rigor and work. It means there is a potentially really high ceiling of what COULD be produced by these minds.

I find it important to recognize great work like this to encourage people to do research, even if the initial result feels incredibly niche or irrelevant. Great research seems to be a combo of time and persistence so this is a relevant first step!

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#64

Post by atq2119 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

tmsh wrote: post #11

mensetmanusman wrote: post #3

Great work! I wonder if their expertise would be helpful in understanding deep learning, a rare field that made advances before mathematicians had fully laid the groundwork (sometimes they do a century ahead of time :)); https://deepmath-conference.com/

I just don’t get why comments like this are downvoted. But I do suspect this makes Hacker News what it is. Good at surfacing a certain x to y percentile of a certain way of looking at things. It’s not a place to brainstorm or be open minded about new ways of thinking successfully - not very very often. More a place to surface small useful bits of information that people find (a) useful and (b) that people are passion…

Given that particular link at the end of the comment with no additional commentary on why that particular link, the comment feels like thinly disguised spam to me. I'm glad it got downvoted.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#65

Post by LeanderK » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #32

ShroudedNight wrote: post #26

I wonder how productive Sah would be if he hadn't encountered Sawhney. In my experience, there's something almost mystical about finding a highly compatible partner-in-crime. While I recognize that we (broadly) like to idolize particularly effective individuals, I feel we risk essentially dishonouring the dynamic when we focus so intently and exclusively on just one member of this kind of deeply collaborative union.

This is perhaps one of my biggest downside surprises about university. Although there were plenty of fun people to hang out with, there were very few people who had a seriousness about getting work done, along with a collaborative instinct. Maybe I was unlucky, but I'd thought that an Oxbridge college would yield a few people who could keep me focussed on the academics. And yes, in another world I would have brought…

This is the reason I struggle so much with distance learning during corona. Usually I find partners in my classes to review the lecture with and work on the assignment in parallel. I get so much drive, energy and fun just by not being alone and discussing concepts together. Since I am in my masters, I can freely choose the lectures I want and often don't know anyone in class and rely on making friends in the first week(s). So I am way more on my own during corona and feel like I am fighting alone against the quite demanding lectures. It's not easy and it's just not as fun anymore. I feel like I am only trying to survive the exams without the drive to learn and explore.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#66

Post by daxfohl » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:30 PM UTC

bigdict wrote: post #4

This sort of news is always like a splash of cold water to the face to me. I haven't produced any breakthrough research as an undergraduate. Have I accomplished enough? Am I too complacent? Should I be doing more, working more, studying more? I always remember that the best way to achievement is to stick to areas that are personally exciting to me, and keep cranking at the best pace I can. Others' success shouldn't m…

Neither have any of us, so don't worry about it.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#67

Post by seanc » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #38

lordnacho wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is perhaps one of my biggest downside surprises about university. Although there were plenty of fun people to hang out with, there were very few people who had a seriousness about getting work done, along with a collaborative instinct. Maybe I was unlucky, but I'd thought that an Oxbridge college would yield a few people who could keep me focussed on the academics. And yes, in another world I would have brought…

Intellectualism hasn’t matured as Barbarism has (still going through refinement). Your gym partner is never going to even attempt to prove to you they are stronger, and you yourself won’t even care if they are (or vice versa). There’s a natural understanding of the physical, and mostly we as a society realize how futile it is to exert physical dominance on one another. So you are stronger, what are you going to do, b…

Isn't that more or less why Perelman turned down the Fields medal? He had no interest in the competitive part of professional math study?

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#68

Post by Cerium » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:42 PM UTC

Very cool. I just took a course on graph theory, and immediately though of the Ramsey numbers. Sure enough he made some progress there. What makes the Ramsey numbers fascinating to me is that they are a problem that goes from pen and paper trivial to computer solvable, to completely intractable in only 3 steps. A brute force proof of the R(5,5) case would involve testing 2⁹⁰⁵ (2^905) graphs.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#69

Post by scott_s » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

ShroudedNight wrote: post #26

I wonder how productive Sah would be if he hadn't encountered Sawhney. In my experience, there's something almost mystical about finding a highly compatible partner-in-crime. While I recognize that we (broadly) like to idolize particularly effective individuals, I feel we risk essentially dishonouring the dynamic when we focus so intently and exclusively on just one member of this kind of deeply collaborative union.

Agreed, and this one of the worst aspects of our PhD system - graduate students need to have a body of work that is theirs. Even amongst a collaboration, they need to carve out sections that are unquestionably theirs so they can defend a dissertation that is also theirs.

I am now at IBM Research. In my career here, I have experienced multiple working relationships where I feel we were able to accomplish far, far more than at least I know I could have achieved on my own. Maybe they didn't need me, but I know for certain I needed them to be so productive. That this kind of working relationship is disincentivized for graduate students is, to me, tragic.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#70

Post by spekcular » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

vjk wrote: post #20

Great article - very inspiring to hear about his collaboration with another undergraduate at MIT over 3 years, and the joint awards they've won together. My undergraduate graph theory textbook had this quote from Paul Erdos: " Suppose aliens invade the earth and threaten to obliterate it in a year's time unless human beings can find the Ramsey number for red five and blue five. We could marshal the world's best minds…

Even for R(5,5), we're probably better off with the preemptive attack, according to a researcher in the area: https://mathoverflow.net/questions/210653/algorithms-for-cal....