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Ethereum 2.0 launches

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Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#221

I don't understand this. I don't understand any of it. I don't understand cryptocurrencies. I don't understand what problems they really solve. > "Ethereum is open access to digital money and data-friendly services for everyone – no matter your background or location. It's a community-built technology behind the cryptocurrency ether (ETH) and thousands of applications you can use today." I can do all these things alr…

You might want to start here, focusing on the transformation of ethereum's ecosystem [0] >ETH 2.0 is finally here and will transform Ethereum as we know it. But what is the philosophy underpinning ETH 2.0? And what is Ethereum building towards? It all starts with the idea that Ethereum is the foundation of a social contract for the global economy. >Ethereum is a global public good that is open, borderless, neutral, t…

Is that $1 trillion only ETH transactions, or it is counting the huge number of other "coins" (tokens) or assets implemented as ETH smart contracts that act like mini-ledgers? (I'm assuming the latter.)

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To trust a currency, you must trust the institutions that manage that currency. You have no control over it. To trust a cryptocurrency, you must trust the algorithm that runs it. It's fully auditable and predictable. It still takes me several business days to complete an ACH transaction in the US, and requires I trust the banking system. Transferring cryptocurrencies happen much faster and don't require the same kind…

>To trust a cryptocurrency, you must trust the algorithm that runs it. It's fully auditable and predictable. What happens when Ethereum 2 inevitably hits a security bug, much like the ones Ethereum 1 hit that led to the DAO hack/theft (some might say... worked exactly as coded)?

Compare it to traditional security. If you want to steal a few dollars you just need a sharp bit of metal and an easily frightened shopkeeper.

Of course when you leave, the shopkeeper (assuming you didn't murder them) can use a phone to inform the authorities. Then a manhunt begins involving resources like police and their cars, radios, guns, protocols, legal justice system, forensic investigators etc.

Is the sharp piece of metal a bug? Is the patch just more force, monitoring and authority?

Edit: And is the cost and risk of trusting an algorithm comparable to the human cost and risk in maintaining current securities "authenticity", which is basically a might is right system?

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can do all these things already. You're absolutely right, but just like you can send a letter in the mail, email does the same thing but is digitally native to the internet. Up until the invention of Bitcoin, there was ZERO scalable way for me @joeblau to send you @louwrentius money the way I send an email. By that, I mean the only thing I need to rely on is a protocol (like SMTP) and you'll receive it. What proble…

> Up until the invention of Bitcoin, there was ZERO scalable way for me @joeblau to send you @louwrentius money the way I send an email. By that, I mean the only thing I need to rely on is a protocol (like SMTP) and you'll receive it. Maybe because it's not a need most people have? > The problem is that money (paper money/currency) is not the only thing that has value which human beings transfer among each other. We…

  Maybe because it's not a need most people have?
Most may the the right word. This is really about a lot of small wins over the current system, not really one right answer that solves everything.

  This still means nothing to me. I can't relate to this.
This is fair, I don't know you personally so I don't know what lifestyle you're living.

  So it's about not wanting to pay transaction fees for buying stock. Hmm, doesn't really sell it to me, quite frankly
It's not really about that, it's more about zero counter party risk. This exists in lots of areas, but without knowing you, it's hard for me to come up with a concrete example of why this matters to you.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#224
post #32
post #29

Whoa, according to AllNodes, Expected ROI for Eth2 stakeholders is 16.6%, which easily beats out almost any other DeFi interest bearing account (typically ~10%)!

APR depends on total staked amount, and decreases as staked Eth increases. You can see the chart here: https://launchpad.ethereum.org Now that the launch has succeeded, I will stake some of my Eth. As more people do that, APR will fall.

Edit: this complaint is null now!

Poo, minimum 32 ETH or at current prices $19k. This reinforces my dislike of staking. Only making the already rich richer. Keeping lesser ETH holders out of the profit.

But who am I kidding; if I magically had 32 ETH to stake I'd probably feel differently.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually Proof of Work WILL kill Bitcoin - but I have to admit this may be decades out in the future. Right now, most of the mining is financed via inflation. But as this comes to an end, eventually, the cost of mining will be borne by anyone making transactions on the network through tx fees. Somebody has to pay the electricity bill on all these ASICs. EDIT: One could try to argue that high transaction costs are n…

What's your take on off chain solutions like lightning as a solution to the high tx fees?

Sure that works, but AFAIK it's a far cry from the decentralization we were promised in the white paper.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#226
post #224
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

APR depends on total staked amount, and decreases as staked Eth increases. You can see the chart here: https://launchpad.ethereum.org Now that the launch has succeeded, I will stake some of my Eth. As more people do that, APR will fall.

Edit: this complaint is null now! Poo, minimum 32 ETH or at current prices $19k. This reinforces my dislike of staking. Only making the already rich richer. Keeping lesser ETH holders out of the profit. But who am I kidding; if I magically had 32 ETH to stake I'd probably feel differently.

In crypto there's this concept of delegation and also pooling. This allows folks with smaller holdings to be exposed to the benefits of staking.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#227

I don't understand this. I don't understand any of it. I don't understand cryptocurrencies. I don't understand what problems they really solve. > "Ethereum is open access to digital money and data-friendly services for everyone – no matter your background or location. It's a community-built technology behind the cryptocurrency ether (ETH) and thousands of applications you can use today." I can do all these things alr…

>What does this do for real-life applications? You can lend dollars on ethereum for 4% APR at the moment. That's a good reason to use this even for someone not interested in other functions. The interest comes from borrowers, who are mostly speculators going long on crypto. https://compound.finance/markets USDC is tokenized dollar that can be swapped to/from dollars in a bank account on coinbase. Recently it was even…

What happens with these loans if the recipient defaults on repayment?

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#228
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not looking for links to books. I'm looking for an explanation in plain English that shows why any of this matters.

In simple terms. The currencies, and related technologies al deal with the problem of transferring of money/services between parties where no centralized trust/power exists. This is, in the words of their proponents to prevent abuse by the trusted party: Credit card companies blocking transfers to legitimate companies on the basis of pressure from the US gov. Banks printing money and devaluing currency of currency ho…

> prevent abuse by the trusted party

Actually eliminating this problem by using a cryptocurrency requires 2 crucial aspects:

1. The transaction being performed would have to be stateable and checkable 100% as an eth contract. Thus, if the deal is: I mail you my old iphone, and once I receive it, you shall gain a bunch of digital value, then.. how? How do you put in an eth contract that the iphone is real, not stolen, not broken? How do you protect against someone mailing you a brick? If the entire transaction cannot be _completely_ described in the contract, there are still third parties and plenty of room for scams. As far as I can tell (and I'm no expert, so I'm writing this mostly to check if my assumptions are wrong - plenty of knowledgable folks in the thread), bitcoin, ethereum et al make this _worse_: Normally if you send me a literal brick in a box, I don't have to file in court, I can just make some pictures and make a claim with the payment processor. Yes, this can be abused, but right now, today, this is more of a help than a hinder: They _DO_ prevent the 'mail a brick in a box' scams relatively well. With ethereum and such, if we code in the contract that the money will be transferred once DHL or UPS or whatnot signs off that the package was signed for, then what the heck do I do if you mail me a brick in a box? The kinds of middlemen (courts, governments, payment processors, transaction broker, etc) that can help me out are precisely the middle men that systems like ethereum are trying to eliminate!

2. That Joe Random knows how to program eth contracts and inherently knows how to ensure that the contract code seems like it has no leaks. Given that teaching someone to program is difficult, that there are many folks who don't seem to have a knack for it, and that there are lots of stories about faulty contracts that resulted in massive financial loss, I don't see how Joe Random gets to do this. Thus, Joe Random will need to rely on trusted parties: A programmer for the contract, or a website that shows standard contracts, or a security consultant that will review the contract code Joe Random wrote to ensure it is sound. If that consultant wants to scam Joe, how does Joe stop this? One could make overtures that eth itself will solve this (by using it to convey that a whole boatload of parties all sign off on 'You can trust Jane Consultant, she knows her stuff', but now you're just encoding a web of trust, which you can do just as well for current systems ('You can trust paypal, they know their stuff and will fairly treat chargebacks and complaints' [1]).

Combine the two and I'm left with the idea that the problem eth tries to solve is real, but that it is just the technical part of a more complicated solution - a solution whose human parts are not obviously solved.

In other words, yeah, eth as a concept seems misguided and mostly useless to me. But I'm sure I'm missing something.

[1] PayPal isn't particularly trusted. But that's just proof of the current system working: It's not hard to figure that out, and to get an in-depth analysis of what paypal will and won't do for you if you get scammed.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#229
post #173
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me how someone living in Rural Africa can get any useful access to the Ethereum blockchain, without accepting a significant loss of expected benefits. Frankly, if we're going to be broadly racist and otherwise discriminatory about this, I would say that Ethereum and other blockchain systems are vanity projects for first world, white, city dwellers, with very little relevance for the rest of the world.

Well I have plenty of friends in Argentina, and Ethereum is helping them live through hyperinflation. Their currency is plunging, their banking system is corrupt, so these are their options: 1. Trade Pesos for USD on black market exchanges. Hide cash in safes & under mattresses 2. Purchase Dai or other stablecoins. Keep money in multi-signature vaults, earning interest through lending protocols. Plus, cryptocurrencie…

USD isn't that great because there's so much counterfeiting

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#230

I am incredibly happy about this. It's the first step for a major cryptocurrency towards ledger security that does not damage the environment via mining. I always hated how wasteful and energy-inefficient mining is. Staking reduces energy costs by many, many orders of magnitude. With lightweight clients in development, it is possible to validate chain using Raspberry Pi. I hope (but don't expect) that some time in th…

Eventually Proof of Work WILL kill Bitcoin - but I have to admit this may be decades out in the future. Right now, most of the mining is financed via inflation. But as this comes to an end, eventually, the cost of mining will be borne by anyone making transactions on the network through tx fees. Somebody has to pay the electricity bill on all these ASICs. EDIT: One could try to argue that high transaction costs are n…

I just don't see it. Bitcoin could be forked to no longer use PoW if it became an existential threat.
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