Ethereum 2.0 launches • Hacker News Board

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#101

Post by dbetteridge » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #46

I don't understand this. I don't understand any of it. I don't understand cryptocurrencies. I don't understand what problems they really solve. > "Ethereum is open access to digital money and data-friendly services for everyone – no matter your background or location. It's a community-built technology behind the cryptocurrency ether (ETH) and thousands of applications you can use today." I can do all these things alr…

On a personal level I to have no need or want of cryptocurrencies, but the stated benefits are not for first world, white, city dwellers with ready access to the existing monetary system.

- Someone lives somewhere that the U.S refuses to bank with (Sanctions)

- Someone who lives somewhere that simply has no financial infrastructure readily accessible and relies on prepaid cards for things like water and electricity (Rural Africa?)

- Some industries are forbidden to use the majority of credit card processing facilities without excess fee's (Adult content for example)

These are examples where one could build processes around something like Ethereum, with the understanding that you are primarily just adding another input to the existing system but with the trade-offs being more access and lower fees but also less protections and greater risk.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#102

Post by nickik » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #61

speeder wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for Ethereum itself: It is basically a distributed computing platform designed to handle money, idea is you make a program that handles money, and it runs in a decentralized manner, this way noone can interfere with it, for example you could make a program that tells the users the password to login on a dissident newspaper if they donate something, since it is decentralized the government would have a harder time…

I read a lot of difficult words that I can't relate to. What does this mean for the average citizen in America or Europe? Also, I read this: > Ethereum clients use a listener (TCP) port and a discovery (UDP) port, both on 30303 by default. > If you need to run JSON-RPC, you'll also need TCP port 8545. Note that JSON-RPC port should not be opened to the outside world, because from there you can do admin operations. So…

A government can do a lot of things, and if you have Mao in command.

However, if you want to have a somewhat modern society taking away basic things like internet and power is very difficult. You can maybe to that for some individuals, but doing it for all is very tricky.

The argument that, its not 100% possible to prevent all ways for a government to do something, then you should do it at all, is a terrible argument.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#103

Post by ralphc » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

SCHiM wrote: post #69

louwrentius wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not looking for links to books. I'm looking for an explanation in plain English that shows why any of this matters.

In simple terms. The currencies, and related technologies al deal with the problem of transferring of money/services between parties where no centralized trust/power exists. This is, in the words of their proponents to prevent abuse by the trusted party: Credit card companies blocking transfers to legitimate companies on the basis of pressure from the US gov. Banks printing money and devaluing currency of currency ho…

I've heard of Ethereum "distributed apps". Is that different than currency, what is a use case for a distributed app?

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#104

Post by prussian » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #72

PycptN2MH wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is deceptive to say 'I don't understand' when what you mean is 'I disagree.' Your central argument is: 'You offer a service to everyone. I already have that service. Therefore you are not creating value'

I don't even understand if they even provide a real service. But - for the sake of argument - if they do, I don't see the unique selling points.

Honestly, the selling point is it is a demonstration of global consensus. whether that is useful as a service is debatable I suppose.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#105

Post by Shorel » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #46

I don't understand this. I don't understand any of it. I don't understand cryptocurrencies. I don't understand what problems they really solve. > "Ethereum is open access to digital money and data-friendly services for everyone – no matter your background or location. It's a community-built technology behind the cryptocurrency ether (ETH) and thousands of applications you can use today." I can do all these things alr…

Advice: if you don't understand, never invest.

About your other points: I see no benefit whatsoever in investing my own time trying to teach you about cryptocurrencies.

Think about it as a secret. Act as it doesn't exist and both our lives will be better.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#106

Post by anonymousab » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #72

PycptN2MH wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is deceptive to say 'I don't understand' when what you mean is 'I disagree.' Your central argument is: 'You offer a service to everyone. I already have that service. Therefore you are not creating value'

I don't even understand if they even provide a real service. But - for the sake of argument - if they do, I don't see the unique selling points.

Crypto is easy to transfer and keep and has more lasting value in countries that are facing hyperinflation, often moreso than USD. This particularly applies to Venezuela, which is exerting extra pressures and taxes in foreign currencies.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#107

Post by louwrentius » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

bjarneh wrote: post #78

louwrentius wrote: post #46

I don't understand this. I don't understand any of it. I don't understand cryptocurrencies. I don't understand what problems they really solve. > "Ethereum is open access to digital money and data-friendly services for everyone – no matter your background or location. It's a community-built technology behind the cryptocurrency ether (ETH) and thousands of applications you can use today." I can do all these things alr…

> What problem / which problems are being solved here? I guess all crypto-currency is an attempt at digital cash. I.e. the ability to send "money" between people who do not trust each other digitally; with secrecy/privacy in manner which cannot be taken away by states/governments/banks etc. Why people want to solve this problem through a scheme of chained hash-values and mining (which I guess is just padding the data…

> I.e. the ability to send "money" between people who do not trust each other digitally;

How does a cryptocurrency actually solve the lack of trust?

From the few things I do understand, I think it doesn't at all.

I think this article by Bruce Schneier is interesting: https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2019/02/theres_no_g...

> with secrecy/privacy in manner which cannot be taken away by states/governments/banks etc.

I don't have a need for that kind of secrecy. I understand the Silk Roads of the world would like it though. But that doesn't sell cryptocurrencies to me.

If you need to hide stuff from the government, there are bigger problems that cryptocurrencies can't solve, as I can tell.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#108

Post by 101008 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

bjarneh wrote: post #78

louwrentius wrote: post #46

I don't understand this. I don't understand any of it. I don't understand cryptocurrencies. I don't understand what problems they really solve. > "Ethereum is open access to digital money and data-friendly services for everyone – no matter your background or location. It's a community-built technology behind the cryptocurrency ether (ETH) and thousands of applications you can use today." I can do all these things alr…

> What problem / which problems are being solved here? I guess all crypto-currency is an attempt at digital cash. I.e. the ability to send "money" between people who do not trust each other digitally; with secrecy/privacy in manner which cannot be taken away by states/governments/banks etc. Why people want to solve this problem through a scheme of chained hash-values and mining (which I guess is just padding the data…

> the ability to send "money" between people who do not trust each other digitally

How is this solved with crypto? I bought a few things with crypto that they were never delivered, so I got scammed. Yes, crypto helps the part receiving money, not the part sending money. This is not a solution, it's just moving the problem to the other side.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#109

Post by rorykoehler » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #46

I don't understand this. I don't understand any of it. I don't understand cryptocurrencies. I don't understand what problems they really solve. > "Ethereum is open access to digital money and data-friendly services for everyone – no matter your background or location. It's a community-built technology behind the cryptocurrency ether (ETH) and thousands of applications you can use today." I can do all these things alr…

>I can do all these things already.

While I understand why you are confused you must understand that many people can't do what you can do and it's not guaranteed you will be able to do it in the future either. Just look at the situation in Venezuela for example. Even in SE Asia loads of people are still unbanked with no way of changing that.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#110

Post by DennisP » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

naringas wrote: post #17

One thing I haven't been able to figure out about proof of stake is this: if one entity somehow manages to control over half to the total ETH tokens, does this enable an attack analogous to bitcoin's 51% problem (which happens when one miner controls over half of the network's raw cpu power)?

A 51% staker who attempted to reverse transactions on ETH2 would be automatically penalized by the destruction of their stake. The network would keep running and the end result would be a large sudden deflation of ETH. On PoW this would be like an attacker's mining rig burning down.

A 51% staker who just censored transactions could hold out longer. If the problem were severe, the community would have to decide whether they want to manually fork off the attacker. The equivalent for PoW would be changing the hash function.

Gaining 51% can be more expensive to do on PoS than on PoW. If 10% of the tokens are staked, you need to accrue another 10% of the total market cap. On PoW, if the annual inflation rate is 2%, the hardware is good for two years, and half the mining cost is electricity, then the total value of mining equipment is only 2% of the market cap, and that's how much you'll have to spend to get 51%. (If miners are rentable, then much less for a brief attack.)