Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory • Hacker News Board

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#31

Post by benrbray » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 9:43 AM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #30

MaximumYComb wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think it would be a hot take but I had someone arguing against me that it's not a good indicator since only approx 20% of competitors get a PhD in Math. I felt that he was emotionally invested in his argument, likely due to wanting to do a math PhD and not being food at the competitions. I even agreed that you don't need to be good at competitions to get a PhD but he still kept to his argument that being good d…

What's a "hot take"? I agree with the answer above. You need to pour a fair bit of effort into getting on an Olympiad team. Whether you get a PhD is more a question of economics, IMO. If you're showing that much promise there will be many other temptations, and bear in mind it's not just rich countries that have math kids, there's plenty of olympiad kids who need to get out and make money when they've done their degr…

> What's a "hot take"?

It's slang for "unsubstantiated opinion likely to incite controversy". Weird how this word started appearing everywhere suddenly in the last few months.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#32

Post by lordnacho » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

ShroudedNight wrote: post #26

I wonder how productive Sah would be if he hadn't encountered Sawhney. In my experience, there's something almost mystical about finding a highly compatible partner-in-crime. While I recognize that we (broadly) like to idolize particularly effective individuals, I feel we risk essentially dishonouring the dynamic when we focus so intently and exclusively on just one member of this kind of deeply collaborative union.

This is perhaps one of my biggest downside surprises about university.

Although there were plenty of fun people to hang out with, there were very few people who had a seriousness about getting work done, along with a collaborative instinct. Maybe I was unlucky, but I'd thought that an Oxbridge college would yield a few people who could keep me focussed on the academics. And yes, in another world I would have brought the motivation myself, but like many people, I am influenced by my environment.

If you've ever coded with someone you click with, you might have had this experience of generating way more useful code than 2x people working on their own, or what one person could do in 2x the time.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#33

Post by madrox » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 9:56 AM UTC

bigdict wrote: post #4

This sort of news is always like a splash of cold water to the face to me. I haven't produced any breakthrough research as an undergraduate. Have I accomplished enough? Am I too complacent? Should I be doing more, working more, studying more? I always remember that the best way to achievement is to stick to areas that are personally exciting to me, and keep cranking at the best pace I can. Others' success shouldn't m…

It’s important to focus on the pleasure of practicing and honing a craft. I don’t think either of these guys are doing this for notoriety. They’re doing it because they love math.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#34

Post by divtiwari » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 9:56 AM UTC

Some times I feel inferior while reading such stories, they are of almost the same age as me. Even though I am very well placed in my career sometimes it just stings :(

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#35

Post by tester34 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 10:09 AM UTC

>He has done enough work as an undergraduate to get a faculty position

what a reward - academia job!

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#36

Post by Kephael » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 10:28 AM UTC

qzw wrote: post #27

jb775 wrote: post #22

Wonder how he'd hold up in a modern programming interview. I'd say 75% chance he'd be thrown an obscure curveball and be completely written off by the hiring company.

Nah, the IMO gold medal on his resume alone puts him into a different category. Unless the hiring company is completely clueless, he’d get special treatment from the start. People like him are not like you and me.

This is wrong, for a programming interview FAANG and friends care greatly about mitigating legal risk and would not treat them any differently. Interviewers typically have their own questions and may have only glanced at the resume.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#37

Post by curt15 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 10:37 AM UTC

jb775 wrote: post #22

Wonder how he'd hold up in a modern programming interview. I'd say 75% chance he'd be thrown an obscure curveball and be completely written off by the hiring company.

Depends on where. Some hedge funds like DE Shaw are known to hoard olympiad talent.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#38

Post by runawaybottle » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #32

ShroudedNight wrote: post #26

I wonder how productive Sah would be if he hadn't encountered Sawhney. In my experience, there's something almost mystical about finding a highly compatible partner-in-crime. While I recognize that we (broadly) like to idolize particularly effective individuals, I feel we risk essentially dishonouring the dynamic when we focus so intently and exclusively on just one member of this kind of deeply collaborative union.

This is perhaps one of my biggest downside surprises about university. Although there were plenty of fun people to hang out with, there were very few people who had a seriousness about getting work done, along with a collaborative instinct. Maybe I was unlucky, but I'd thought that an Oxbridge college would yield a few people who could keep me focussed on the academics. And yes, in another world I would have brought…

Intellectualism hasn’t matured as Barbarism has (still going through refinement). Your gym partner is never going to even attempt to prove to you they are stronger, and you yourself won’t even care if they are (or vice versa). There’s a natural understanding of the physical, and mostly we as a society realize how futile it is to exert physical dominance on one another. So you are stronger, what are you going to do, beat me up every day? We realize this is a stupid game.

Ironically, it’s the intellectual stuff that hasn’t come full circle. So you’re smarter, is your plan to just out smart me everyday? Well actually, yes, that is the plan. I will out smart you, establish dominance, hierarchy, status etc - all of which is systemically quantified via prestige, status, income, life partners (all the stupid shit physical dominance once got us) . It’s hard to find synergy in this realm when we as a society haven’t gotten over ourselves on this front, the same way we got over all that physical beat people up bullshit. We haven’t yet accepted that this too is a waste of time in the context of civilization.

We are all more than capable of collaborating intellectually, but as a society we are just too dumb at the moment to do so. Hard to collaborate with barbaric intellectuals.

Long story short, you are probably part of the problem, as we all are at this inflection point in humanity.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#39

Post by nkozyra » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 10:47 AM UTC

bigdict wrote: post #4

This sort of news is always like a splash of cold water to the face to me. I haven't produced any breakthrough research as an undergraduate. Have I accomplished enough? Am I too complacent? Should I be doing more, working more, studying more? I always remember that the best way to achievement is to stick to areas that are personally exciting to me, and keep cranking at the best pace I can. Others' success shouldn't m…

If you're getting imposter syndrome while still in school, buckle up :)

If getting things done is your goal, then put energy into it. That's what very accomplished people do. Just accept that's not always enough and accept that's alright. Doing the best you can is literally all you can do.

Re: Undergraduate Math Student Pushes Frontier of Graph Theory

#40

Post by MaxBarraclough » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 11:01 AM UTC

MaximumYComb wrote: post #28

munchbunny wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t seem like a hot take to me. Success at a Math Olympiad (at the international level) is almost certainly a good indicator because you have to be an outlier in both talent and willingness to grind in order to get that far, and that level of achievement is the type of success that snowballs because people respect the achievement.

You'd think it would be a hot take but I had someone arguing against me that it's not a good indicator since only approx 20% of competitors get a PhD in Math. I felt that he was emotionally invested in his argument, likely due to wanting to do a math PhD and not being food at the competitions. I even agreed that you don't need to be good at competitions to get a PhD but he still kept to his argument that being good d…

> I had someone arguing against me that it's not a good indicator since only approx 20% of competitors get a PhD in Math

As lordnacho says, that argument doesn't hold up at all. 20% seems really high, to me. A PhD in math isn't like scoring highly on an IQ test, it's not purely the result of being mathematically capable, it's also the result of undertaking a PhD in math. Plenty of smart people apply their abilities elsewhere. Perhaps in finance, for instance.

Also, I'd guess that the Olympiad winners who started a math PhD were more likely to succeed than the average math PhD student, and more likely than average to eventually get tenure.

> not being food at the competitions

I rather like this typo ;-P