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College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

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Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#261

Post by saagarjha »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #117
ege_erdogan wrote: post #7

I see online synchronous 1-2 hour exams as a mistaken result of the "let's emulate in-person teaching in a remote setting" mindset. You don't succeed in remote teaching and learning by trying to make it as close as possible to the in-person setup. You have to treat it as an entirely different problem. Consider the synchronous exam. It is a perfect method of grading in-person. It is hard to cheat and all people take t…

> You don't succeed in remote teaching and learning by trying to make it as close as possible to the in-person setup. You have to treat it as an entirely different problem. I agree at a high level, but practically speaking it's not realistic to expect colleges to completely reinvent their entire teaching systems for a temporary, 1-2 year remote learning period. Now that we've been dealing with COVID for almost an ent…

> I also think you're not giving students enough credit. They're not dumb. If noise is a problem, they're going to use headphones. If internet is flakey, they're going to find a better location to take a test.

They aren't, but many are much less privileged than you are making them out to be. My mom teaches students who join her class from their car parked as close as possible to get a weak Wi-Fi signal from their house because they have no quiet places at home.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#262

Post by sudosysgen »

Tainnor wrote: post #155
dghlsakjg wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone can figure out how to cheat on an exam where each answer depends on the previous, and the original seed is unique to each student, wouldn't it show a pretty thorough mastery of the subject matter? I think the larger point is that it is fairly easy in any subject to design a test that is very hard to cheat on. It is much harder to find the resources in modern education to grade that test since each submissi…

How do you propose that this should work e.g. in proof-based maths courses? You can't just tweak a theorem to prove by the value of some "unique seed", the theorem might become wrong. It's true that you usually can't cheat your way through such an exam provided you actually write the answer yourself, but in a take-home situation you can always ask someone else to solve it for you.

You do what my teachers do and have unique problem generation software.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#263

Post by read_if_gay_ »

ativzzz wrote: post #101
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students who cheat can secure a higher GPA with less effort. That effort can be redirected towards looking for internships and improving grad school applications. This is definitely not the reason why most people cheat. > Morality aside, if you pursue a cheating strategy your pay-off will be much higher As with any kind of lie, you will have to cheat more and more to compensate for previous cheating, and eventually…

The first part certainly is why they cheat; higher grades allow easier admissions to jobs and better schools. > As with any kind of lie, you will have to cheat more and more to compensate for previous cheating, and eventually your little web of lies will come back and bite you in the ass. Completely disagree. People cheat to climb the ladder of life without having to put in the work or having the resources required t…

At least the cheaters I know cheat because a) they’re unable to pass without cheating and/or b) they’re avoiding putting in effort. The jobs are part of the goal, but that’s true for basically everyone that attenda college. I don’t know anyone who cheats and invests all the saved time into grinding Leetcode.

> if you cheat your way through undergrad and get into a better program with better resources, more driven peers and better professors, you are better off regardless.

Until you end up doing a surgery. You can’t cheat the real world. Your lack of knowledge will show eventually, and then it’ll limit your opportunities.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#264

Post by ipiz0618 »

throwaway201103 wrote: post #233
stevesearer wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One professor of mine let us bring books and notes into our written exams knowing that if you didn't actually do any of the readings or take any notes, those resources wouldn't really help you anyway. But if you had adequately prepared, the books and notes could really help you craft an excellent written response. In this scenario, it took the focus off memorizing things and instead focused on understanding the conte…

And much closer to real life. Nobody will ding you on the job if you need to look up the implementation of an algorithm or data structure. Knowing which algorithm or data structure is appropriate is far more important.

And sadly so, this is still not the case for job interviews, where they expect you to memorize algorithms you normally search online or refer to your previous implementations.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#265

Post by msla »

technion wrote: post #204
throwaway201103 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you only have linux computers at home and can't run their spyware?

I've never dealt with this software but when I did my CS degree, several of the applications we worked with throughout the course were distributed as Windows binaries. If you'd ever done homework or study at all, you don't only have Linux.

Your experience does not match mine at all. I earned a CS degree with a computer that only had Linux installed and I never missed Windows.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#266

Post by purple_turtle »

technion wrote: post #204
throwaway201103 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you only have linux computers at home and can't run their spyware?

I've never dealt with this software but when I did my CS degree, several of the applications we worked with throughout the course were distributed as Windows binaries. If you'd ever done homework or study at all, you don't only have Linux.

> If you'd ever done homework or study at all, you don't only have Linux.

If something applies to your low quality university it does not mean that it applies everywhere.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#267

Post by ck425 »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #248
schoolornot wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got a BS/MS in CompSci in my twenties when I was immature as a person, now doing online classes for a non-tech major. As an "adult student" the system seems 10x more broken than it was when I was a high school graduate. Being young and tuition-free it was easy to grind through the material just worrying about the next test in the next class. Now, here I am as a tricenarian trying to relax and understand hundreds of p…

> I got one teacher to chat off the record and he basically said to "get through it." What a disservice to students. Why are there still weeding-out classes? How many doctors, surgeons, programmers, engineers would there be in the world if it wasn't for these classes? The Montessori education system and the like seem so superior. College should be pass/fail. Honestly, that's typical of most Biology lower division cou…

> Google really is making the smartest move out of all the FAANG corps in that regard, by placing grater value on their own rather than degrees.

Sorry could you explain that? Do Google now run courses and place value on having completed them in interviews?

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#268

Post by searchableguy »

ck425 wrote: post #267
Melting_Harps wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got one teacher to chat off the record and he basically said to "get through it." What a disservice to students. Why are there still weeding-out classes? How many doctors, surgeons, programmers, engineers would there be in the world if it wasn't for these classes? The Montessori education system and the like seem so superior. College should be pass/fail. Honestly, that's typical of most Biology lower division cou…

> Google really is making the smartest move out of all the FAANG corps in that regard, by placing grater value on their own rather than degrees. Sorry could you explain that? Do Google now run courses and place value on having completed them in interviews?

> Sorry could you explain that? Do Google now run courses and place value on having completed them in interviews?

Yes. They are slowly offering those options along with other tech companies.

I think Shopify has the best model: https://devdegree.ca/

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#269

Post by markus92 »

saghm wrote: post #252
cowmoo728 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a linux computer you can boot from usb or a second drive to run windows. That's what I did when I had to take exams using Proctortrack.

Recent versions of Windows have made it a lot harder to install through USB. A month ago I tried to install Windows 10 onto an old laptop SSD mounted in an enclosure and connected through USB so I could play a games with my brother online that was only available through the Windows store, but the installer literally refused to install to it because I was using the Home edition of Windows instead of Enterprise. I even…

Education = Enterprise edition for all practical purposes, so they wouldn't have to pay.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#270

Post by kevinschumacher »

monocasa wrote: post #239
kevinschumacher wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you that most people who run Linux as a daily driver might be capable of running Windows as a secondary OS on occasion, this discounts the fact that he or she would be required to purchase the license (else break the law), and also ignores the fact that they should not be required to do so

That hasn't really stopped colleges before. I've had quite a few classes where the textbook cost more than a Windows license.

You’re right, but I still think it is not fair for the university to require you to run certain software if it does not directly benefit your learning
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