71–80 of 84 posts
There's a similar cultural etiquette I've observed amongst Koreans around paying for the bill after eating a meal out together. It sometimes almost erupts into physical violence as several parties all fight for the bill in order to pay it.
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> I know the invitations were sincere because I was being accompanied by Iranian acquaintances most of the time, doing the translating This made me wonder what taarof prescribes about translating taarof prescribed offers.
When in Iran, I will often need to, discretely, in English, whisper to a local Iranian friend "is this tarof?". What hasn't been mentioned so far - even local Iranians are not always 100% certain if a situation is involving tarof or not.
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Wow, I very strongly disagree. First of all, as for learning the language, I have no idea why taarof would be an impediment. I mean, I guess if your plan is to exchange a handful of words with a ton of different people, taarof might make up a noticeable portion of your communication, but in language learning it's far better to speak with fewer people and try to have longer conversations. Otherwise you'll never move p…
> I know the invitations were sincere because I was being accompanied by Iranian acquaintances most of the time, doing the translating. 100% taarof - there was another Persian with you, and the custom therefore could absolutely not be disregarded with the solo foreigner. Even if you were alone, the mere potential that you might understand the custom compels its use by your hosts. > For one particular example of Irani…
Oh dear, this is a really dangerous conflation of 2 different practices. You really ought to distinguish for everyone here instead of trashing the whole culture. You're not talking about the same thing others are talking about. Taarof'ing (pretty literally: "offering") can mean multiple things, and it's critical to distinguish them:
1. Offering things expecting you to refuse them. You know, like you go to pay for a purchase and a shop owner pretends to refuse the payment. In such cases, they would be offended if you accept their offer.
2. Offering things in general (generally food...) because they've just been trained to by the culture. In this case, they're "worried" something negative might happen on your end if they you don't take their offer. (You might be offended, go hungry, not have a place to sleep, etc.)
Foreigners talk about #1, but you're talking about #2.
And these are VERY different things.
Your mom making you sandwiches (effectively forcing you to eat them) is NOT #1. She is NOT offering it to you expecting you to refuse it. (At least not due to taarof; if she might have some other beef with you that's another matter.) If it's either of these, it's #2. And in all likelihood, it would be only partially #2—a lot of it is just her being your mom and being overly enthusiastic (obviously some cultural part to this too) about making sure you're well-fed.
However, foreigners care about #1—about offending the person making the offer by accepting the offer. Your mom is emphatically NOT going to be offended if you take the sandwich. Like the native making a sandwich for the person you replied to, she is much wants you to take it and is 100% sincere in that. Heck, she'll be offended if you refuse it!!! Unless I guess, you know, she's doing this for the 500th time and she's hoping you might finally start making the sandwiches yourself, but again, that's only because you're her kid and she wants to see you improve in her eyes, not because of the taarof tradition...
Persian here. It's one of the most annoying and arguably toxic aspects of our culture. I understand it; I understand the perceived need for it, but I submit that it paradoxically does the exact opposite of what it intends to accomplish ("social equality") because it directly diminishes the value of whoever ultimately "loses" the exchange, oftentimes whoever perceives a greater debt to the other person, which is gener…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I know the invitations were sincere because I was being accompanied by Iranian acquaintances most of the time, doing the translating. 100% taarof - there was another Persian with you, and the custom therefore could absolutely not be disregarded with the solo foreigner. Even if you were alone, the mere potential that you might understand the custom compels its use by your hosts. > For one particular example of Irani…
> Even my mother does this in spite of my persistent requests for her not to because she feels an obligation to do so in spite of my pleas. Oh dear, this is a really dangerous conflation of 2 different practices. You really ought to distinguish for everyone here instead of trashing the whole culture. You're not talking about the same thing others are talking about. Taarof'ing (pretty literally: "offering") can mean m…
Your experience with it is just as valid as mine is, and that's as far as I'll take this thread because I don't wish the gatekeep your experience the way you just did mine.
Tarof in an intersection: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XAvzW1WZsN4
The attention to detail in this sketch is glorious. And that's coming from a westerner who never heard of tarof before this. So I'm probably missing even more of the detail that actually exists in it.
I am Iranian, and I have to admit, taarof has been an interesting subject in my social interactions. With other Iranians, I have no problem reading and sending social cues; with non-Iranians taarof makes me come off as super nice and kind. But what happened, when people repeatedly took me on on my taarofs, I grew silently very spiteful and distanced myself from them. If a guest is staying late we never ask them to le…
I spend around half my life in Iran (for the last eight years). My favourite example, to show just how pervasive tarof is, was the occassion I was at the supermarket checkout of a large supermarket chain. The young cashier refused, several times, to accept my money. This, at a very western-style large supermarket chain. Of course, I paid. However, a similar thing happened to a Canadian guest I was once travelling wit…
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/27/939437147/australian-professo...
I spend around half my life in Iran (for the last eight years). My favourite example, to show just how pervasive tarof is, was the occassion I was at the supermarket checkout of a large supermarket chain. The young cashier refused, several times, to accept my money. This, at a very western-style large supermarket chain. Of course, I paid. However, a similar thing happened to a Canadian guest I was once travelling wit…
> The truth is that an Iranian will never understand just how much fun it is being a foreigner in Iran, we really are treated well (tarof or not). https://www.npr.org/2020/11/27/939437147/australian-professo...
The fact that you decided to post it, says much more about you, than Iran.
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> The truth is that an Iranian will never understand just how much fun it is being a foreigner in Iran, we really are treated well (tarof or not). https://www.npr.org/2020/11/27/939437147/australian-professo...
This is the typical kind of response I have been receiving for eight years running now, whenever I say anything positive is said about Iran. Many people can't handle the obvious reality that every country has good and bad aspects - even Iran. The fact that you decided to post it, says much more about you, than Iran.