Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance • Hacker News Board

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#301

Post by blackbrokkoli » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

runeks wrote: post #283

kombinar wrote: post #38

Interesting. I found after some trail and error that I'm more rested and perform better on less than recommended 8h of sleep. My sweet spot is somewhere around 7h. Fitbit "magic" sleep score also seems to confirm that (better sleep score on less sleep). I also found that stress is the biggest factor in getting good night sleep. When stressed I can sleep 8h and still feel bleh. I wonder if 8h of sleep is the cause of…

> I wonder if 8h of sleep is the cause of the better performance or they both are a result of less stressful life, better health or something else. This illustrates well the problem with these kinds of studies. How do we know that stress isn't causing both little/poor sleep and e.g. decreased cognitive performance (as opposed to little sleep being the cause of a decrease in cognitive performance)? It's not like we ca…

We can actually. That is what sleep labs are for. I don't know if this exact setup has been done, but there is a lot of stuff like making people cram for an exam and then varying their sleep opportunity.

If you mean that you cannot literally make people sleep: No, but you can manipulate consistently by just setting sleep opportunity and then measure the actual sleep time on top of that to draw conclusions.

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#302

Post by TaupeRanger » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #300

TaupeRanger wrote: post #34

Don't get anxious. These kinds of studies are almost always overturned by another one within 12-24 months. Weak correlations are not worth worrying about.

No it won't. I mean, maybe this one will, but the research regarding sleep duration is very, very sound. We are talking upwards of 50k people . Effects of sleeping too little are tightly and consistently associated with Alzheimer, cancer growth, bad emotional control, mental disorder episodes and heavy machinery accidents. I would say sleep is where cigarettes were in the late fifties or early sixties: Researchers an…

No one is arguing that lack of sleep isn't detrimental. Everyone knows this from personal experience. But fear-mongering about long term effects is unsupported unless you're talking about clinically rare levels of chronic sleep deprivation. There are some studies that show increased cancer risk for moderately reduced sleep, and some that show no increased risk. Likewise with neurodegenerative diseases and other issues. The anxiety created by these weak studies might be worse than the effects of losing sleep that an overwhelming majority of people reading about them will experience.

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#303

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #291

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've eaten processed food for generations, though - and lots and lots of very questionable food that could literally be poison. Sausages are processed foods, but they kept us alive over the winter. Salt pork anyone? Dried fish? Weevil-filled grains that hopefully stay dry during the winter and foods in root cellars. I'll add that plenty of processed food is an absolute miracle. Frozen vegetables, for example. You we…

I would add Pickles, Kimchi, Sauerkraut, Soy Sauce, Worcestershire, pretty much any preserved or fermented food is going to be processed food and was the norm before refrigeration. Some of it is really good for you some of it is not so good. As well there is a lot of misinformation and pseudoscience miracle cure babble in nutrition. For a long time now, we have been sold that preserved/processed foods = bad. But we w…

[deleted]

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#304

Post by bigwavedave » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

vram22 wrote: post #151

bigwavedave wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's a ball python! Just barely a year old and the sweetest noodle. She just barely became big enough for a 40 gallon tank.

Sounds cool.

She is the best pet I've ever had. Very low-maintenance, doesn't musk, doesn't make noise in the middle of the night, and still shows/craves affection. Did you know snakes yawn? I sure didn't until I got her! Owning a snake has opened my eyes to a lot of amazing things about them :).

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#305

Post by jacobwilliamroy » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #291

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've eaten processed food for generations, though - and lots and lots of very questionable food that could literally be poison. Sausages are processed foods, but they kept us alive over the winter. Salt pork anyone? Dried fish? Weevil-filled grains that hopefully stay dry during the winter and foods in root cellars. I'll add that plenty of processed food is an absolute miracle. Frozen vegetables, for example. You we…

I would add Pickles, Kimchi, Sauerkraut, Soy Sauce, Worcestershire, pretty much any preserved or fermented food is going to be processed food and was the norm before refrigeration. Some of it is really good for you some of it is not so good. As well there is a lot of misinformation and pseudoscience miracle cure babble in nutrition. For a long time now, we have been sold that preserved/processed foods = bad. But we w…

You know what I mean by "processed food". I do not mean kimchi and saurkraut. Just eat a fucking vegetable man. It's not science. Stop trying to make everything so complicated for the sake of your mental masturbation.

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#306

Post by jacobwilliamroy » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #285

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I think processed food is literally poison. This is based on my experience living across the street from a 7/11 eating primarily processed prepackaged foods, whatever hot garbage wrapped in plastic they had under the heat lamp multiple times a day for a month. Now I mostly eat spinach, lentils, organic granola, yams, brown rice, occasional fish. Cognition is better, sleep is better, energy is higher. I do…

We've eaten processed food for generations, though - and lots and lots of very questionable food that could literally be poison. Sausages are processed foods, but they kept us alive over the winter. Salt pork anyone? Dried fish? Weevil-filled grains that hopefully stay dry during the winter and foods in root cellars. I'll add that plenty of processed food is an absolute miracle. Frozen vegetables, for example. You we…

You know what I mean by "processed foods" and it is not frozen vegetables, salted meat, or smoked fish. The "meat stick" you get at the store is not just "salted meat". It is not a preserve, it is a processed food. Look at the ingredient label, they use a lot more than just "salt and meat" to make that stick and it is pretty sketchy to put that stuff in a person's body.

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#307

Post by hermitmaster » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #281

hermitmaster wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I can’t categorically say it gets better with time, it has for me. I have an 18 month old and an almost three year old. I’m back to quasi-normal sleep now. I do wish we had kids when we were younger (I’m 37), but we weren’t planning on having any.

Well my toddler is 16 months and things did really already improved a lot in terms of sleep, but the new baby is coming any minute now ... so I expect less of it in the next time ;)

We’re expecting number three in August. FWIW, number two was a lot easier for us.

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#308

Post by nradov » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #224

zascrash wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think that our body know better. But I realise it doesn't do what is better but rather what it is used to do. I felt I had to eat sweets frequently, drink coca-coca everyday and 3 meals a day etc. My body felt terrible when I didn't. I stopped listed to what my body wanted and consciously stop those things. First week it was really painful. Second week I got used to. Third week I completely changed. Now I h…

Our body evolved for an environment without those things that you listed. I think you were right to consciously remove those things from its access. Sleep was always an essential part of the equation, however. Try to imagine how you lived 10K years ago.

If I lived 10K years ago I imagine I would have been frequently sleep deprived. Obtaining food, building shelters, and guarding against attacks were all higher priorities. We don't have any hard data on neolithic sleep patterns.

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#309

Post by Broken_Hippo » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #306

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've eaten processed food for generations, though - and lots and lots of very questionable food that could literally be poison. Sausages are processed foods, but they kept us alive over the winter. Salt pork anyone? Dried fish? Weevil-filled grains that hopefully stay dry during the winter and foods in root cellars. I'll add that plenty of processed food is an absolute miracle. Frozen vegetables, for example. You we…

You know what I mean by "processed foods" and it is not frozen vegetables, salted meat, or smoked fish. The "meat stick" you get at the store is not just "salted meat". It is not a preserve, it is a processed food. Look at the ingredient label, they use a lot more than just "salt and meat" to make that stick and it is pretty sketchy to put that stuff in a person's body.

The thing is: Not everything with a large, technical name is bad. Simply having preservatives isn't necessarily bad - and neither is artificial flavorings. I'm pretty sure modern "Beef sticks" aren't really bad either - I'm gonna guess you mean something like a "slim jim", whose ingredients seem pretty standard [1]. They just aren't good if you live off of them as a standard part of your diet.

And honestly, if you don't differentiate that you don't mean that stuff, there is no way for a reader to tell. Some people absolutely mean processed foods like smoked fish, canned/frozen vegetables, and the like.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Slim-Jim-Smoked-Original-24-Count/dp/....

Edited for spelling.

Re: Sleep duration is associated with brain structure and cognitive performance

#310

Post by stevewodil » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 8:10 PM UTC

mekkkkkk wrote: post #279

stevewodil wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the body has a mechanism to tell us when it needs water. You don't pee when you don't feel the urge to, so I don't drink water when I don't feel the urge to in most cases. I drink some when I first wake up just so I don't forget to drink some, and if I'm exercising I drink a lot

If that is a bulletproof way to handle water intake, why would you worry about "forgetting"?

Well if I'm engrossed in work or in flow I probably won't notice that I am thirsty or will ignore it for a while. For me it just seems like a good idea to take in some water in the morning to get my body going.

I didn't claim anything to be bulletproof, just saying that your body tells you when it needs water and drinking in excess of that is probably unnecessary