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YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

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Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#261

Post by forest_dweller »

pmiller2 wrote: post #259
forest_dweller wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly you don't get to tell me what I can and can't consider and what I happen to think is relevant. As for what is relevant, I was talking about the relevance to this particular discussion nor the wider implications. It was pretty obvious to me what was meant, but at this point it is pretty obvious people want to make it about something else.

Unless you live in America, yes, I do. Stick to your own house. And, maybe learn to read what people actually write, rather than putting your own spin on it. It was clear to me what was meant as well, and you didn't get it.

> Unless you live in America, yes, I do.

No you don't and you can't do a damn thing about it. So do us a favour and get off your high horse.

> And, maybe learn to read what people actually write, rather than putting your own spin on it.

I frequently steelman the other side. So that isn't fair at all.

> It was clear to me what was meant as well, and you didn't get it.

I did get it. You want to make it about something else. Not everything that is said is literal. It is pretty obvious to me that others want to put their own spin on it. Contrary to what you believe, acting as high handed won't convince me of anything.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#262

Post by rightbyte »

ikeboy wrote: post #103
rightbyte wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So for 19 civilian killings the police kill one person? I wonder what would be a "reasonable" share given the amount of violent criminals.

Where are you getting that from? It's 10%, i.e. roughly one police killing per 10 civilian killings. Read the article I linked and compare to other countries as well as historically.

Oh sorry did my math wrong.

I note that the US has a quite high share police killings similar to Brazil, but that Colombia and South Africa has quite much lower. I don't know where I am heading, but the problem seems quite complex.

Funny how Iceland has a quite high share ... didn't except that.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#263

Post by waterhouse »

motohagiography wrote: post #32

It would be helpful for people who have previously come out against cancel culture and deplatforming to defend the principle for someone who is not a member of their political tribe. Independent of the content of the video and who it happened to offend, the deceptive practice of shadow banning is reprehensible. Tar-pitting spammers is one thing, deceiving creators, especially ones who are politically engaged as to th…

All right. To establish the tribal difference: I see "Second Thought is creating Leftist Educational Videos", one of which is called "You're Probably Already a Socialist", and some comments on his Twitter seem to establish him as either a socialist or at least very sympathetic to socialism; as a libertarian who currently sees the left as more dangerous and authoritarian than the right, this makes me say "Oh dear, oh no."

And now: Assuming he is correct about what's happening, I say that Youtube is cowardly and they suck for suppressing his video, and for being cagey about it; and the DHS giving him a physical visit seems like clearly an intimidation tactic and one of the early stages of authoritarian evil.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#264

Post by rvense »

forest_dweller wrote: post #255
rvense wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the argument I was addressing can be summed up as "X has worked". It's more like "X has happened, therefore X is an inevitable consequence of Y which preceded it." Also, tropes are often tropes for a reason. You can't dismiss something just because it comes up often.

> I don't think the argument I was addressing can be summed up as "X has worked". It's more like "X has happened, therefore X is an inevitable consequence of Y which preceded it." You are splitting hairs now. The point I am making is that frequently on this site observations are discounted immediately as survorship bias. It almost as if it the only one people know. It simply isn't survorship bias if something been go…

> It simply isn't survorship bias if something been going on for hundreds of years in a particular direction.

I'm not saying secularization is survivorship bias, that seems like a category error (if I may be allowed another HN trope).

I'm saying the idea that secularization "can be traced back to the Bible" because it arose in a society inspired by the Bible betrays a view on history that seems akin to what's sometimes called survivorship bias. But I'm not very attached to the word, we can leave it out if you like! The point would stand, however: the Bible is an inspiration to many societies, very few of which have become secular, and the ones that did became secular only did so long after introduction of the Bible. Therefore it does not seem very obvious to posit a link between the two.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#265

Post by jaredklewis »

calibas wrote: post #95
3663288262 wrote: post #16

Speaking as a lurker, this seems basically like what people have been asking for for awhile now including here. I remember seeing numerous top comment chains over the last four years (and of course before that but not here) that all boiled down to very eloquent defenses of censoring fringe thinkers. Who knows, maybe in theory land there's no reason we can't have it both ways. But it seems to me that in the real world…

Children are taught to not question what they're told, because it's much easier on parents and teachers when children don't question what they're told. Then when they're adults they lack any kind of critical thinking skills because they've been miseducated and they're easy targets for disinformation. To me, the solution is obviously better education. When people believe the Earth is round only because that's what the…

> When people believe the Earth is round only because that's what they were told, it's not that hard for a clever talker to convince them the Earth could be flat. When people know the Earth is round because they actually understand the physics behind it, there's no way you're ever going to convince them the Earth is flat.

The problem with understanding things from their fundamentals is that it doesn't scale. The world is too complex.

Are vaccines safe? Maybe I'll just should read through the Institute of Medicine's definitive, 900 page "Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality."

Can these robust explanations be simplified for lay people? Yes, but faced with competing, simplified explanations, can lay people dependably evaluate which is correct? Can they do it better than a domain expert?

I have some understanding of how vaccines work, from school and popular science literature. But if tomorrow leaders in the field of medicine broadly announced that all of our understanding of vaccines up until now had been mistaken and that there was now some new explanation, well I would accept that new explanation. Whatever education I have had on the topic, it is obviously not going to be better than the education of experts in the medical field.

Epistemic humility and a consequent reliance on domain experts is an essential part of being informed in our wonderfully complex world. This also means it is possible to be mislead by experts who are in the wrong, but I don't really see how this can be entirely avoided.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#266

Post by jakelazaroff »

konjin wrote: post #132
bladegash wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was more so referring to the right to vote, run for office, etc. You are certainly not wrong about the other parts though.

Rich blacks could vote in more states after independence than poor whites. And that remained the case for 50 years. Leading to the hilarious case where the first recognized black slave in the US was owned by a black man. Regardless, offices again had property and tax qualifications in virtually all states.

A de jure right to vote often did not translate to actual access to the franchise. States often enacted barriers such as poll taxes and literacy tests, exempting anyone whose grandfather was registered to vote (i.e. not Black people, whose grandparents had been enslaved). Such discriminatory practices were not actually outlawed until the Voting Rights Act was passed a full century later.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#267

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #2

The shadow ban isn’t even the scariest part of the thread! The Department of Homeland Security confronted him about a video about police brutality: > A few months ago I uploaded a video about police brutality. It showed explicit acts of violence by the police, and it was understandably age-gated. The video was appropriate only for older audiences, but did not break any of YouTube's terms and conditions. > That video…

> It’s “anti-American” to say that the people ostensibly enforcing our laws should not commit violence against us.

No. Everybody knows that, everybody agrees with that, and you can say it. But it's "anti-American" to point out that the people ostensibly enforcing our laws do commit unreasonably unnecessary violence against us.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#268

Post by AnimalMuppet »

leftyted wrote: post #127
jakelazaroff wrote: post #2

The shadow ban isn’t even the scariest part of the thread! The Department of Homeland Security confronted him about a video about police brutality: > A few months ago I uploaded a video about police brutality. It showed explicit acts of violence by the police, and it was understandably age-gated. The video was appropriate only for older audiences, but did not break any of YouTube's terms and conditions. > That video…

The DHS was established in the panic following 9/11. If they're knocking on doors trying to intimidate dissidents, it seems clear that it has outlived its usefulness (if it ever had any) and should be dismantled. You'd think that would be something small-government republicans progressive democrats could agree on...

You would think. But both sides also feel like they have to look strong on security, or the other side is going to beat them up in the next election.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#269

Post by LdSGSgvupDV »

0xfeba wrote: post #170
calibas wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are taught to not question what they're told, because it's much easier on parents and teachers when children don't question what they're told. Then when they're adults they lack any kind of critical thinking skills because they've been miseducated and they're easy targets for disinformation. To me, the solution is obviously better education. When people believe the Earth is round only because that's what the…

> Children are taught to not question what they're told, because it's much easier on parents and teachers when children don't question what they're told. Then when they're adults they lack any kind of critical thinking skills because they've been miseducated and they're easy targets for disinformation. I'm gonna guess you don't have children. Children like easy-to-follow directions. They don't understand nuance at al…

When I'm 4, I could win the debate with adults. That bothered me for several years to think why an adult looks like child. As an adult now, I know the reason their mind never grow up. Not children could not understand complicated thing, it is that adult could not explain them well.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#270

Post by waterhouse »

jaredklewis wrote: post #265
calibas wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are taught to not question what they're told, because it's much easier on parents and teachers when children don't question what they're told. Then when they're adults they lack any kind of critical thinking skills because they've been miseducated and they're easy targets for disinformation. To me, the solution is obviously better education. When people believe the Earth is round only because that's what the…

> When people believe the Earth is round only because that's what they were told, it's not that hard for a clever talker to convince them the Earth could be flat. When people know the Earth is round because they actually understand the physics behind it, there's no way you're ever going to convince them the Earth is flat. The problem with understanding things from their fundamentals is that it doesn't scale. The worl…

So you have to get good at evaluating experts. Strategies include: comparing multiple sources, checking on the background of the alleged experts, picking out a few interesting but verifiable statements from their argument and fact-checking those, finding an opposing argument and seeing which argument seems to make more sense or be better supported.

Having attended school through tenth grade... There were maybe a couple of assignments over the years in which we were told to choose a topic, do research on it while following some of the above (explicitly stated) strategies, and write it all up.

The rest of the time, though, it was a lot more like "this stuff is fact" and you're not really encouraged to doubt it or look closely into the evidence chain. Evidence or proof might be presented (textbooks often mention it), or might not. I wouldn't say that the whole "skeptically evaluating your chosen experts" thing was considered a core skill or habit to cultivate (probably a few teachers considered it such, but their curricula didn't really emphasize it).

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