“Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts • Hacker News Board

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#11

Post by thought_alarm » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:29 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #4

Steve Wozniak was the commencement speaker yesterday at Michigan State. I had the pleasure of attending a meeting he held with engineering students after the commencement. The biggest surprise I had was that the Woz was on the Macintosh team before Jobs was involved. He said that he, Jef Raskin and a few other engineers wanted to create a low cost version of the Lisa. It was only after Jobs was banished from the Lisa…

What's interesting to me is just how early Jobs was booted off the Lisa project, way back in 1980 before Apple's IPO. That's what led to Steve's involvement in Raskin's Macintosh project, and what allowed it to move beyond the stage of research project.

It's been suggested that the Macintosh project was allowed to continue at Apple because it kept Steve Jobs out of everyone's hair.

Fast forward four years to 1984, the Lisa appears to be a failure and the newly-released Mac appears to be a big success (at least initially). The Lisa and Mac teams are reorganized into a single group called "Apple 32", with Steve Jobs at the helm of this new group. During the initial meeting of the new group, Steve's first words to the Lisa people were "You guys really fucked up."

Even more interesting, the guy who took over the Lisa project from Steve in 1980, John Couch, returned to Apple a few years ago as VP of Education Sales. He appears in the top-left corner of the org chart in the linked article.

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#12

Post by viraptor » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:31 PM UTC

> “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering.”

Anyone cares to explain that one? It left me confused really... The way I read it, he's a visionary and doesn't care how things are achieved as long as business is good. And to be honest that doesn't sound good for me - more like a dictator who will eliminate failing VPs whether the fault is on their side or somewhere else in the organisation.

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#13

Post by ajessup » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:39 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #12

> “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering.” Anyone cares to explain that one? It left me confused really... The way I read it, he's a visionary and doesn't care how things are achieved as long as business is good. And to be honest that doesn't sound good for me - more like a dictator who will eliminate failing VPs whether the fault is on their side or somewhere else in the organisation.

It means you can't hide behind excuses. If for example theres a problem with a vendor shipping components for a product line you're a VP for, it means you're responsible. It means the only acceptible answer is that you found a new supplier and we got the product out on time. Not 'we're late because our manufacturer couldn't hold up their end of the deal'. It's a great philosophy, to my mind it's what defines a true manager in any org. If only AT&T implemented it too.

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#14

Post by shazow » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:40 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #12

> “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering.” Anyone cares to explain that one? It left me confused really... The way I read it, he's a visionary and doesn't care how things are achieved as long as business is good. And to be honest that doesn't sound good for me - more like a dictator who will eliminate failing VPs whether the fault is on their side or somewhere else in the organisation.

If the janitor didn't have reasons to hide behind, then he should have taken initiative to get the new keys or pick the lock or break the door or whatever it'll take to achieve his goal.

The notion is that a VP shouldn't have reasons to hide behind. She must achieve her goal using any approach necessary, especially since her process is not spelled out for her like the janitor's is. A VP should take initiative even if it takes hiring a new team, or doing it herself, or changing the product, or getting the necessary partnership or distribution deal--whatever it takes to surpass Steve Jobs's expectations.

Steve Jobs doesn't have expectations for janitors.

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#15

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:40 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #12

> “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering.” Anyone cares to explain that one? It left me confused really... The way I read it, he's a visionary and doesn't care how things are achieved as long as business is good. And to be honest that doesn't sound good for me - more like a dictator who will eliminate failing VPs whether the fault is on their side or somewhere else in the organisation.

[deleted]

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#16

Post by andos » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:44 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #4

Steve Wozniak was the commencement speaker yesterday at Michigan State. I had the pleasure of attending a meeting he held with engineering students after the commencement. The biggest surprise I had was that the Woz was on the Macintosh team before Jobs was involved. He said that he, Jef Raskin and a few other engineers wanted to create a low cost version of the Lisa. It was only after Jobs was banished from the Lisa…

Maybe you already know this link, but it's worth mentioning anyway:

— www.folklore.org

The whole story of the Macintosh, told by the people who built the Macintosh. A great read.

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#17

Post by brianpan » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:49 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #12

> “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering.” Anyone cares to explain that one? It left me confused really... The way I read it, he's a visionary and doesn't care how things are achieved as long as business is good. And to be honest that doesn't sound good for me - more like a dictator who will eliminate failing VPs whether the fault is on their side or somewhere else in the organisation.

It's about making excuses- if something didn't get done or failed, the reasons why don't matter anymore. Success and failure matter.

I don't think it's about success at any cost. It's about focusing on the right things and taking responsibility.

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#18

Post by andos » Sat, May 07, 2011, 11:59 PM UTC

olivercameron wrote: post #2

Just by looking at this organisational chart, you can see why Apple's industrial design is so amazingly great and consistent: http://www.macstories.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Photo-0... . Notice how Jonathan Ive does not delegate any work to any Vice Presidents. Compare this to other corporations and you'll see why this works so well (no giant chain of command where every member of staff is trying to put their st…

The noteworthy stuff is that Jonathan Ive reports directly to Steve Jobs, while Bob Mansfield, SVP of Hardware¹, reports to Tim Cook. That shows what Apple is all about.

¹. The chart says "SVP of Mac Hardware", but on the iPad 2 video he's presented as "SVP of Hardware".

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#19

Post by leoc » Sun, May 08, 2011, 12:09 AM UTC

shazow wrote: post #14

viraptor wrote: post #12

> “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering.” Anyone cares to explain that one? It left me confused really... The way I read it, he's a visionary and doesn't care how things are achieved as long as business is good. And to be honest that doesn't sound good for me - more like a dictator who will eliminate failing VPs whether the fault is on their side or somewhere else in the organisation.

If the janitor didn't have reasons to hide behind, then he should have taken initiative to get the new keys or pick the lock or break the door or whatever it'll take to achieve his goal. The notion is that a VP shouldn't have reasons to hide behind. She must achieve her goal using any approach necessary, especially since her process is not spelled out for her like the janitor's is. A VP should take initiative even if…

Roughly speaking, this is also supposed to be the difference between a professional and an employee, and between an officer and an enlisted man (though a good military will also encourage initiative at all ranks).

Re: “Inside Apple” Reveals Steve Jobs Anecdotes, Apple’s Little Known Facts

#20

Post by viraptor » Sun, May 08, 2011, 12:12 AM UTC

ajessup wrote: post #13

viraptor wrote: post #12

> “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering.” Anyone cares to explain that one? It left me confused really... The way I read it, he's a visionary and doesn't care how things are achieved as long as business is good. And to be honest that doesn't sound good for me - more like a dictator who will eliminate failing VPs whether the fault is on their side or somewhere else in the organisation.

It means you can't hide behind excuses. If for example theres a problem with a vendor shipping components for a product line you're a VP for, it means you're responsible. It means the only acceptible answer is that you found a new supplier and we got the product out on time. Not 'we're late because our manufacturer couldn't hold up their end of the deal'. It's a great philosophy, to my mind it's what defines a true m…

Yeah, I get the idea of more responsibility, but don't really agree with how it was put... There are always things which simply cannot be resolved in a given timeframe and the reasonable decision might be to plan for a delay / propose an alternative plan instead - it looks like the VP gets the blame in that case instead of reconsidering the strategy, since reasons don't exist any more.

More to the point - that sentence paints the world black/white, even though the world never works like that. However, I think it also explains some actions of that company...