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How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

blog.beeminder.com

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Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#21

Post by lambdaloop »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #19
lambdaloop wrote: post #16

I've tried beeminder and other self-binding contracts, but after some time something in my life (moving, breakup, etc) pops up and I just can't fulfill the goal for 1-2 weeks. After I let it slip for a bit, I find it harder to come back and it feels that the contract loses some meaning. For any system I've tried, it consistently falls after 3-4 months of use (this is beeminder, spreadsheets, text files, among others)…

What are some examples of goals you set and couldn't follow through on? I think specific examples might help get better answers.

Sure, a couple of examples of tasks that ended up lapsing on beeminder (certainly plus points for beeminder for allowing me to see my behavior in charts!)

https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/mustdo - doing 1 admin task per day (slowed down after 3 months, stopped after 6 months)

https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/anki - reviewing some number of anki cards each day (lapsed after ~2 months, recovered but lapsed after 2 months again and stopped)

(goal was private when archived, but yah similar trajectory) - doing weekly reviews (lapsed after ~5 months)

Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#22

Post by DoreenMichele »

lambdaloop wrote: post #21
DoreenMichele wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of goals you set and couldn't follow through on? I think specific examples might help get better answers.

Sure, a couple of examples of tasks that ended up lapsing on beeminder (certainly plus points for beeminder for allowing me to see my behavior in charts!) https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/mustdo - doing 1 admin task per day (slowed down after 3 months, stopped after 6 months) https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/anki - reviewing some number of anki cards each day (lapsed after ~2 months, recovered but lapsed afte…

Did you ever set larger goals? What was the purpose of doing those things? Did it build towards something? What were the milestones you were measuring or overarching purpose?

I would probably die of boredom and give up too after a while if it was "Some seemingly pointless small task repeated daily with no larger goal to work towards as a means to measure when I had done enough or keep me motivated and clear why I should continue to do this."

Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#23

Post by [deleted] »

nextaccountic wrote: post #20
emmanueloga_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Regarding "life-hacking": "In an effort to keep up with a world of too much, life hackers sometimes risk going too far" [1] * Regarding "meditation": "The Varieties of Contemplative Experience Study catalogued 59 different types of meditation-related experiences that can be distressing or associated with impairment in functioning." ... " As many as 1 in 4 meditators reports negative or unwanted effects from meditat…

Your [2] link is from a site that offers paid consultations for meditators in distress.. do you have a source from a site that doesn't stand to profit from those statements?

[deleted]

Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#24

Post by vosper »

emmanueloga_ wrote: post #15
reagle wrote: post #8

I wrote about this here https://hackinglife.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/94tu3rlx/release/2

* Regarding "life-hacking": "In an effort to keep up with a world of too much, life hackers sometimes risk going too far" [1] * Regarding "meditation": "The Varieties of Contemplative Experience Study catalogued 59 different types of meditation-related experiences that can be distressing or associated with impairment in functioning." ... " As many as 1 in 4 meditators reports negative or unwanted effects from meditat…

> There are "significantly higher mortality rate among people who regularly sit for prolonged periods" and "long term complications of prolonged standing" [3]. What's left for us? Floating? :-)

Alternating could be the answer :) I have a DIY treadmill desk, and I try to walk for at least an hour every work day, while working. Usually I get to 1.5 hours, in 2-3 sessions. It's been great - I sleep much better than when I don't walk, and it's easier for me to keep my weight in check. I've been doing it for 3 years now. I know this isn't possible for everyone, but it was easy to setup and, in the scheme of things, some of the best money I've spent.

Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#25

Post by lambdaloop »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #22
lambdaloop wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, a couple of examples of tasks that ended up lapsing on beeminder (certainly plus points for beeminder for allowing me to see my behavior in charts!) https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/mustdo - doing 1 admin task per day (slowed down after 3 months, stopped after 6 months) https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/anki - reviewing some number of anki cards each day (lapsed after ~2 months, recovered but lapsed afte…

Did you ever set larger goals? What was the purpose of doing those things? Did it build towards something? What were the milestones you were measuring or overarching purpose? I would probably die of boredom and give up too after a while if it was "Some seemingly pointless small task repeated daily with no larger goal to work towards as a means to measure when I had done enough or keep me motivated and clear why I sho…

I suppose each of the habits that I tried to build generally improved my life, but I'm not sure that I've setup clear milestones to work towards. That's something that has worked well in personal projects, so I'll give it a shot for habits as well! Thank you for the feedback!

It's hard to answer about overarching purpose. The habits I highlighted each help towards some purpose (organizing my life, learning languages), but only form some portion of that goal.

Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#26

Post by DoreenMichele »

lambdaloop wrote: post #25
DoreenMichele wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever set larger goals? What was the purpose of doing those things? Did it build towards something? What were the milestones you were measuring or overarching purpose? I would probably die of boredom and give up too after a while if it was "Some seemingly pointless small task repeated daily with no larger goal to work towards as a means to measure when I had done enough or keep me motivated and clear why I sho…

I suppose each of the habits that I tried to build generally improved my life, but I'm not sure that I've setup clear milestones to work towards. That's something that has worked well in personal projects, so I'll give it a shot for habits as well! Thank you for the feedback! It's hard to answer about overarching purpose. The habits I highlighted each help towards some purpose (organizing my life, learning languages)…

You need one of two things:

1. A milestone that marks when you have done "enough" and can quit without feeling like you failed.

2. A metric that reinforces the idea that "I need to keep doing this to avoid bad things or to get good things. When I stop, things I don't desire happen instead."

Without one of those, you will tend to have some internal, subconscious thing go either "Yup, I've gotten what I needed and can't be bothered with this anymore." or "This is pointless drivel and doing nothing and wasting my time, and I can't be bothered with this anymore."

Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#27

Post by danielheath »

lambdaloop wrote: post #21
DoreenMichele wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of goals you set and couldn't follow through on? I think specific examples might help get better answers.

Sure, a couple of examples of tasks that ended up lapsing on beeminder (certainly plus points for beeminder for allowing me to see my behavior in charts!) https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/mustdo - doing 1 admin task per day (slowed down after 3 months, stopped after 6 months) https://www.beeminder.com/lambdaloop/anki - reviewing some number of anki cards each day (lapsed after ~2 months, recovered but lapsed afte…

I suspect that setting “method goals” isn’t particularly stable in general; they aren’t tied to any values or principles so it’s always easy to drop them.

Re: How to Do What You Want: Akrasia and Self-Binding (2011)

#28

Post by emmanueloga_ »

nextaccountic wrote: post #20
emmanueloga_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Regarding "life-hacking": "In an effort to keep up with a world of too much, life hackers sometimes risk going too far" [1] * Regarding "meditation": "The Varieties of Contemplative Experience Study catalogued 59 different types of meditation-related experiences that can be distressing or associated with impairment in functioning." ... " As many as 1 in 4 meditators reports negative or unwanted effects from meditat…

Your [2] link is from a site that offers paid consultations for meditators in distress.. do you have a source from a site that doesn't stand to profit from those statements?

I don't think they are for profit, if they provide a therapy service then it makes sense that they would charge for it though (as any other therapist would do).

I remember hearing about adverse effects of meditation in podcasts and blog posts and, perhaps some audio book? Can't remember. There are links to a few studies in all mighty wikipedia too [1], I'm sure you can find sources.

From hearing the pros and the cons I suspect many forms of meditation are healthy, and it can be unhealthy in the same way some forms of exercise can be unhealthy [2].

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation#Potential_adverse_e...

2: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22exercise%20overdose%22

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