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Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

lemond.com

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Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#211

Post by c0nsumer »

vondur wrote: post #176
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an engineer and a biker. If you only look at the numbers or try to run simplistic calculations, it's easy to think that bikers are just deluding themselves. But there's more to it than just numbers on paper, and there's more to biking than just riding in a straight line from point A to point B. Carbon fiber frames aren't just about saving weight. The Carbon Fiber has different flexibility and damping properties t…

I'm a fairly serious mountain biker and I’m not sold on Carbon Wheels. I’ve seen plenty of them get destroyed on the trail where an aluminum model would probably have been ok. I will admit to having a carbon frame, but I’m now looking at some aluminum ones as the price difference is hard to ignore for about 2.5 kgs of weight.

I'm a fairly serious mountain biker as well, and I'm wholly sold on carbon rims. In particular, I'm waiting on a set of rims to be delivered to rebuild some I9 Hydra Trail S aluminum-rimmed wheels with carbon.

I've been riding on carbon rims on both hard tail XC bikes and my full suspension trail bike for six years. I've also had aluminum rims on my single speed and hard tail trail bike. I can't count the number of times I've hit the carbon rim and had it be just fine, but all of my aluminum rims have some degree of denting from much lesser riding.

Between the bikes with carbon wheels there's about 12,000 miles of trail riding and they've been just fine.

After I dented the rim on the I9s and had a spoke break I decided a good winter project would be rebuilding the wheels to carbon rims because my previous experiences with them have been so good.

I think the primary benefits of carbon are stronger sidewalls (less likely to dent) and that they cannot be bent and thus can't go out of true (unless the wheel is built wrong). Yes, they can be broken, but it takes a LOT more than it would for a comparable aluminum rim.

(For reference, the rims I've beat on so hard are Light Bicycle RM29C07 and I'm replacing the stock rims on the I9 wheels with AM930.)

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#212

Post by PragmaticPulp »

gameswithgo wrote: post #178
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an engineer and a biker. If you only look at the numbers or try to run simplistic calculations, it's easy to think that bikers are just deluding themselves. But there's more to it than just numbers on paper, and there's more to biking than just riding in a straight line from point A to point B. Carbon fiber frames aren't just about saving weight. The Carbon Fiber has different flexibility and damping properties t…

if you do the math you can quickly prove to yourself that reduced inertia isn’t doing anything for you. you then either have to conclude that newtonian mechanics does not apply to bikes or perception can’t be trusted! if you do a blind experiment, where you don’t know the wheels under you, or a third party adds weights to the rim you can demonstrate this. be sure to use the same tires, at the same pressure, as tires…

> if you do the math you can quickly prove to yourself that reduced inertia isn’t doing anything for you.

This is exactly what I was talking about. People like to assume that a simple math equation tells the whole story, while ignoring the fact that bikers do more than just exist as rigid attachments to a bike that travels in straight lines.

I can do the math, but I can also swap wheels in a matter of minutes and feel the very obvious difference.

I'm talking about 29" mountain bike wheels, where the mass and moment of inertia is significantly more than what you see on 26" road bikes. It's palpable.

Maneuvering the bike in the air is another place where the mass difference is noticeable. Dropping 500g doesn't sound like much when you think about holding 500g in your hand, but it's a different story when that mass is on the ends of a 48" long wheelbase and you're trying to maneuver it in the 0.5s that you're in the air.

If you're just riding something like your tri bike in a straight line down a smooth asphalt road at a constant velocity then it obviously doesn't matter, though.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#213

Post by c0nsumer »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #111
gameswithgo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One chain ring is the new thing these days, with 11+ cog cassettes. Lack of aero shape probably facilitates putting the battery in there. Though they could do the handle bars and seat stays at least.

1x is a cost reduction measure disguised as a "new thing". Same price - less components = more profit.

For mountain biking the simplification is wonderful. Front derailleurs were always a pain in the butt. With wide range cassettes 1x is just the way to go. It also frees up the left side of the handlebar for the lever for a dropper seatpost, which is a game changer in bike handling.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#214

Post by PragmaticPulp »

vondur wrote: post #176
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an engineer and a biker. If you only look at the numbers or try to run simplistic calculations, it's easy to think that bikers are just deluding themselves. But there's more to it than just numbers on paper, and there's more to biking than just riding in a straight line from point A to point B. Carbon fiber frames aren't just about saving weight. The Carbon Fiber has different flexibility and damping properties t…

I'm a fairly serious mountain biker and I’m not sold on Carbon Wheels. I’ve seen plenty of them get destroyed on the trail where an aluminum model would probably have been ok. I will admit to having a carbon frame, but I’m now looking at some aluminum ones as the price difference is hard to ignore for about 2.5 kgs of weight.

Good carbon wheels are incredibly strong. Carbon has the advantage of flexing where aluminum would deform.

You can watch Danny macAskill try to destroy bare carbon wheels (no tires) on concrete here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfjjiHGuHoc

I assume some of the horror stories come from people buying cheap carbon wheels or early models before they had layups and molds figured out.

If you're really concerned, add something like a cushcore to the inside of the tire for additional damping.

Your complaints are common, though. I've all but given on up trying to discuss carbon wheels with people in person because there are so many preconceived notions out there. It was the same way 5-10 years ago with everyone avoiding carbon handlebars for one reason or another.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#215

Post by PragmaticPulp »

hyperpallium2 wrote: post #170
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an engineer and a biker. If you only look at the numbers or try to run simplistic calculations, it's easy to think that bikers are just deluding themselves. But there's more to it than just numbers on paper, and there's more to biking than just riding in a straight line from point A to point B. Carbon fiber frames aren't just about saving weight. The Carbon Fiber has different flexibility and damping properties t…

> reduced rotational inertia translates to faster acceleration \aside why not smaller (radius) wheels? Use higher gearing, and accept the bumpiness. Though for touring aot commuting, there's something pleasant about higher inertia.

Larger wheels roll over obstacles better. That's why most mountain bikes are 27.5" or 29", which is about as big as you can go without causing too many other compromises.

Bumpiness isn't just a comfort issue. Your body ends up absorbing a lot of the up and down motion, which drains your forward momentum.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#216

Post by johnwatson11218 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #60
_verandaguy wrote: post #5

Coming from conventional bikes, I don't understand who this is for. Carbon fibre frames are prohibitively expensive and the market for them serves very involved, often professional or semi-pro cyclists whose performance bottlenecks are imposed by the bike instead of themselves. Ditto for some of the other details on the bike, like the medium-dish carbon rims — all for the sake of weight savings and aerodynamics (sinc…

E-bikes are perhaps the most misunderstood category of bike products right now. Traditional bikers have underestimated demand for e-bikes at every step of the way for one reason: Traditional biking has a massive selection bias effect that excludes anyone who isn’t in great physical shape. The deeper you are into cycling, the more homogenous your perception of what constitutes a biker. You’re not going to see average…

Great points. I just bought two eBikes in the last six months and I love them so much. One thing that I really hate though is how hard it is to change flat tires and dealing with the bike shops. I can't imagine an older person being able to change the tires on either of my eBikes. I swapped out one pair for a pair that is somewhat easier to work with but it can still take me 20 minutes to put on a new tube. The bike shops in my area are horrendous. There are three that I just don't visit anymore. I'm trying to find good ones to use but they are so slammed right now due to covid that it can take 2 to 3 weeks for a large repair. And they have told me they won't do anything for my eBikes if I didn't buy them there. I love riding bikes but there is so much about the bike industry that I find infuriating.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#217

Post by johnwatson11218 »

sunstone wrote: post #152
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-bikes are perhaps the most misunderstood category of bike products right now. Traditional bikers have underestimated demand for e-bikes at every step of the way for one reason: Traditional biking has a massive selection bias effect that excludes anyone who isn’t in great physical shape. The deeper you are into cycling, the more homogenous your perception of what constitutes a biker. You’re not going to see average…

The implications of e-bikes go deeper than one might think. Consider that urban areas are entirely designed around the fact that fossil fuel transportation creates a lot of poisonous emissions. Once fossil fuel transportation is removed from city centers streets can be covered in poor weather, parking can be enclosed, street capacity can be multiplied by several times if e-bikes are popular. There are a lot of wins u…

Not just that but if you live in an American city an eBike can get you closer to that classic "walkable feel" of an older city or a college campus. With my eBike I can get to so many places that are about a 10 minute car ride away. A destination needs to be 30+ minutes away by car before the eBike just doesn't make sense or if it is raining.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#218

Post by johnwatson11218 »

KerrickStaley wrote: post #100

For what it's worth, the Taiwanese company Gogoro already has an e-bike on the market that ships to the USA (the Eeyo 1s) that has the same weight, same range, and same motor wattage at the same price point. The design is a little more stylish too in my opinion, although it lacks fenders (which the Prolog has). [1] [2] Personally, I've looked at the Eeyo bike but can't really justify the price, given that you can buy…

One point in favor of the eBikes is that no matter how hot it got here in Arizona I was able to do some riding every day of the summer. So long as I had enough water and covered up my skin it seemed OK to hit the trails when it was 115 degrees. On a normal bike I stop attempting rides at about 104.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#219

Post by ogre_codes »

drcode wrote: post #189
ogre_codes wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coming from conventional bikes, I don't understand who this is for. People who want an ebike and have a good chunk of disposable income and are willing to pay (a lot) more to have the best experience on a bike. The weight and integrated lights and non-shitty look are particularly nice next to the typical ebike offering. > Suffice it to say, you'd rarely see a commuter using a carbon bike. The first thing I thought…

It would seem foolhardy to lug a crazy-expensive, fragile carbon fiber bike up a stairwell on a regular basis. It would be easy to damage it that way.

> It would seem foolhardy to lug a crazy-expensive, fragile carbon fiber bike up a stairwell on a regular basis. It would be easy to damage it that way.

Spending $4500 on a bike that would be my daily driver is cheap compared to the car it's displacing.

Not sure where you got your intel about the durability of modern carbon fiber frames, but it would be just fine.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#220

Post by johnwatson11218 »

reportingsjr wrote: post #196
outside1234 wrote: post #188

I'm not sure who this product is for. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful product design. But at $4500, with straight bars, it clearly isn't for racers and at that price point, not for commuters either.

This is definitely targeted at middle aged people who want to have a fast bike to enjoy nice ride around town, but aren't nearly as fit as a "race" level road biker. This is probably a much bigger segment than you think. There are lots of middle aged people with tons of disposable income (as evidenced by the mid life crisis sports care trope) that like the idea of exercising, but don't want to put in the pain and eff…

If only they could make the tires easy to fix when you get a flat. Some of these high end tires are nearly impossible to change when you are out on the road.
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