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Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

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Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#131

Post by Rochus »

lukeqsee wrote: post #130
Rochus wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" In God we trust, all others must bring data. " (Edward Deming) See https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2019.pdf , https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht... , etc.

That’s a good quote, I shall use it in the future. :) I never disputed that there’s lots of spin-offs from ETH, but I was unaware of the precise count. It’s higher than I thought. Thanks for bringing the data. However, even with a few dozen startups a year it cannot be termed to a major startup hub. Are there any accelerators, major VCs, or the like in Zürich? I’m not aware of many, if any. I’m in Ostschweiz, so I do…

Not sure what you mean, but see e.g. https://www.technopark.ch/ or https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff.html, or e.g. https://www.computerworld.ch/business/start-ups/foerderprogr...

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#132

Post by react_burger38 »

varispeed wrote: post #42

My personal theory is that determination whether a place can become a "Silicon Valley" is the population's attitude to drugs. If a developer can smoke a joint after a tough day or explore his or hers consciousness in other ways, without fear of going to jail and having their life ruined, then that attracts creative people. If you have creative people in one place, it all starts to come together.

Utah would be a counterpoint to this. More and more VC funding every year, yet doesn't have legal recreational marijuana.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#133

Post by lukeqsee »

Rochus wrote: post #131
lukeqsee wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good quote, I shall use it in the future. :) I never disputed that there’s lots of spin-offs from ETH, but I was unaware of the precise count. It’s higher than I thought. Thanks for bringing the data. However, even with a few dozen startups a year it cannot be termed to a major startup hub. Are there any accelerators, major VCs, or the like in Zürich? I’m not aware of many, if any. I’m in Ostschweiz, so I do…

Not sure what you mean, but see e.g. https://www.technopark.ch/ or https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff.html , or e.g. https://www.computerworld.ch/business/start-ups/foerderprogr...

The last link is what I was looking for, thanks. More startup infrastructure is there than I was aware of.

I’m not certain it changes my overall assessment, though: I wouldn’t chose to move to Switzerland based on its vibrant community of tech startups when compared to other European options. This isn’t to diminish the work being done, and I obviously have more to learn which may change my opinion.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#134

Post by AnthonySmith01 »

aphroz wrote: post #3

Not at all. Yes Switzerland is probably the best country if you want to follow the rules, have a good quality of life and good education for your children. Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges. This is due to the mentality of the population and the risk aversion of the investors. From a Swiss person.

Is working in Silicon Valley for some enormous multinational really that intellectually stimulating though?

When I visited Google in Silicon Valley (from Australia), I didn’t get the impression that the work was that more exciting or cutting edge.

But that said, I did notice how run down Silicon Valley and much of the US cities/suburbs are. It did not strike me as a nice place to live.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#135

Post by jldugger »

AnthonySmith01 wrote: post #134
aphroz wrote: post #3

Not at all. Yes Switzerland is probably the best country if you want to follow the rules, have a good quality of life and good education for your children. Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges. This is due to the mentality of the population and the risk aversion of the investors. From a Swiss person.

Is working in Silicon Valley for some enormous multinational really that intellectually stimulating though? When I visited Google in Silicon Valley (from Australia), I didn’t get the impression that the work was that more exciting or cutting edge. But that said, I did notice how run down Silicon Valley and much of the US cities/suburbs are. It did not strike me as a nice place to live.

Honestly, working on stuff at scale lets me tinker and analyze in ways I never got the chance to at university IT scale. You just didn't have the time or the capacity, and the ROI wasn't there.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#137

Post by sologoub »

gumby wrote: post #108
sologoub wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure which of the many of their offices you are talking about, but the main Googleplex looks to be on a superfund site from previous semiconductor manufacturers - not an ideal agricultural site. Edit: Link to map: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/toxic-plumes-the-dark-... Used to live in HMB, but don’t recall a creamery. Definitely some cool small producers in Pescadero still.

"produce" -- I used it in the conventional US sense of non-grain vegetables and fruit, which HMB is full of. I also don't know of any dairies there specifically; I'm sure there were some once but that would have been before my time! I moved my company into the Landings complex (just off Rengstorff) in the early 90s (SETI was also there!). SGI and then Alza built their HQs on what was a bean field a few years later. B…

Sorry didn’t catch the produce part correctly - HMB is amazing for that. The barn/farm stand on Kelly Ave (Andreotti Family Farm) is awesome and very fresh.

Thanks for sharing the history! Looks like 42 is right on top of the bad site. Guessing much like that Intel wheat.

The other problem Bay Area and much of CA have to also deal with is Mercury contamination. Much of that was from the gold rush era. Nasty stuff.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#138

Post by wespiser_2018 »

jakearmitage wrote: post #94

How does one emigrate to Switzerland?

From what I've gathered when I looked into moving to CH (I could be wrong, and for personal/pandemic reasons didn't pursue this avenue), it's very hard to build a long term life in Switzerland and virtually impossible to gain citizenship through anything but marriage or extraordinary circumstances, but YMMV.

If you want to move to Switzerland from the U.S. the easiest thing is to just go there on a 90-day visa, and constantly re-up it by crossing the boarder and coming back. This will work temporarily, and if you want to stay on a permanent basis, the only way I found was to get a non-EU eligible work visa, which requires you to leave the country, apply and get approved, find an employer, and only then re-enter. You cannot just find a job while on a 90-day.

Most emigrants I met in Zurich where employees of multinationals who managed the visa process for them. If you don't work for an international bank, you're second best bet is to go there on vacation and fall in love :P

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#139

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

izacus wrote: post #77
aphroz wrote: post #3

Not at all. Yes Switzerland is probably the best country if you want to follow the rules, have a good quality of life and good education for your children. Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges. This is due to the mentality of the population and the risk aversion of the investors. From a Swiss person.

Exactly. It's an amazing place to live, has good tech scene, but it's not Silicon Valley. Also the economic focus is completely different - they focus on small enterprises and medium sized businesses which form a significantly more resilient economy (there's a reason why Switzerland did rather well in this pandemic). Asking why the Swiss don't invest in same industries like Californians do would be like asking Morroc…

I feel that analogy is wrong somehow, because:

https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/oukaimeden/

They could, and maybe they should :)

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#140

Post by mahkeiro »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #35
atemerev wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These companies were not financed by venture capital (except for some cryptocurrency companies, which are popular here indeed). Also, some of the software companies were moved here for tax reasons, but they were founded elsewhere.

That's an interesting claim! Is there a tax efficient way to structure a tech company in Switzerland? Taxation doesn't look very good neither on the personal level (income tax / dividend tax / tax on deemed rental value of your property if you own a house!!!) nor the company one (corporate rate tax, high cost of personnel). They do have some good deductions and a lump sum income tax for foreigners relocating to Switz…

No tax on capital gain is just the most important one for any startup... (btw you do get this tax on fictional rental value of your house, but you can deduct all loan interest which are normally higher even today with the 0.8% loan rate)
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