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Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

lemond.com

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Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#201

Post by stan_rogers »

drcode wrote: post #189
ogre_codes wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coming from conventional bikes, I don't understand who this is for. People who want an ebike and have a good chunk of disposable income and are willing to pay (a lot) more to have the best experience on a bike. The weight and integrated lights and non-shitty look are particularly nice next to the typical ebike offering. > Suffice it to say, you'd rarely see a commuter using a carbon bike. The first thing I thought…

It would seem foolhardy to lug a crazy-expensive, fragile carbon fiber bike up a stairwell on a regular basis. It would be easy to damage it that way.

And if you don't, it quickly becomes someone else's bike. That's just the way the world works now. Given that you need to lug the bike around anyway, your choice is now down to the 26-pound version or the 35+-pound version.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#202

Post by crispyambulance »

_verandaguy wrote: post #5

Coming from conventional bikes, I don't understand who this is for. Carbon fibre frames are prohibitively expensive and the market for them serves very involved, often professional or semi-pro cyclists whose performance bottlenecks are imposed by the bike instead of themselves. Ditto for some of the other details on the bike, like the medium-dish carbon rims — all for the sake of weight savings and aerodynamics (sinc…

You're right about all the contradictions with this bike. It doesn't make any sense from either a utilitarian or sport point of view.

But fancy carbon bikes have a robust market with 40-somethings who like to ride and have significant disposable income, it's the market that "Rapha" is going for.

This bike is for a similar market which perhaps isn't quite able to get aero anymore but would still like something sporty that will help them up a hill, I guess.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#203

Post by darkerside »

tigen wrote: post #144
masklinn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a fluid dynamics researcher, and I'll tell you the money these people spend on "aero" and "weight saving" and "higher drivetrain efficiency" stuff is 99.9% snake oil. Unless you are among the top 1000 road bike racers in the world. So, biking audiophilia.

At least weight saving is easily measurable and indisputable. Audiophilia focuses mostly on areas that are not so easily quantifiable.

I've heard audiophilia derided as the practice of listening to the noise instead of the music, sand that was enough for me to get off the train and never think twice.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#204

Post by c0nsumer »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #147
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whose performance bottlenecks are imposed by the bike instead of themselves I'm a fluid dynamics researcher, and I'll tell you the money these people spend on "aero" and "weight saving" and "higher drivetrain efficiency" stuff is 99.9% snake oil. Unless you are among the top 1000 road bike racers in the world. Increasing your exercise load by half an hour per week, or spending a little time understanding and implem…

I'm an engineer and a biker. If you only look at the numbers or try to run simplistic calculations, it's easy to think that bikers are just deluding themselves. But there's more to it than just numbers on paper, and there's more to biking than just riding in a straight line from point A to point B. Carbon fiber frames aren't just about saving weight. The Carbon Fiber has different flexibility and damping properties t…

I'm a mountain biker, and I also ride fatbikes in the winter. There's a couple other reasons for carbon:

- Carbon fiber is a worse conductor of heat than aluminum. Use some carbon fiber bars, foam grips, and either carbon brake levers or aluminum ones with heatshrink tape over them and your hands will stay warmer in the cold. When it's REALLY cold and you're using pogies (grip area covers) this is particularly important as it means less heat wicking away from your hands.

- In my experience the sidewalls on carbon rims are a LOT stronger than aluminum. Sure, it's possible to break carbon, but it takes a lot more force than it does to dent or crease aluminum. I've ridden carbon rims hard on seriously rough trails, hitting rims on things which have dented my aluminum rims, and the rims are just fine.

- When building bicycle wheels one of the usual steps is truing the wheel, or adjusting the tension on each spoke to pull the rim into being straight and eliminating wobble. This is not a thing with carbon rims. With carbon rims they are SO stiff that instead you bring all the spokes up in tension evenly and then maintain this even tension and ensure the wheel is straight (no radial or lateral wobble). Unlike aluminum rims, changing the tension on just one, or even a handful, of spokes won't pull that part of the rim in whatever direction. The rims are just that stiff, and a well-built even-tensioned carbon wheel will last a long time.

- It's also possible to do far more complicated forming with carbon fiber than one can do with metal, particularly at reasonable weights. Having a very low stand-over height (good for technical mountain biking) with carbon is no big deal; just some engineering. With aluminum it requires a lot more material, which can add pounds (noticeable amounts) of weight.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#205

Post by DenisM »

cpsempek wrote: post #191

Beautiful bike, but very disappointed to see a standard drivetrain. For a commuter I'm only interested in one with a belt drive and internal gearing. I'm not sure why these drivetrains are not becoming more common, especially for commuters.

Geared hubs could be quite heavy, certainly so for large number of gears.

OTOH with an electric motor you might not need gearing at all - the motor will help you in a difficult situation: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/28/21344679/gogoro-eeyo-1s-e...

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#206

Post by reportingsjr »

YawningAngel wrote: post #4

I'm always confused by people of working age who ride bikes like this. What's the attraction of a more expensive and heavier bike that's no faster than pedaling yourself?

I ride bikes a reasonable amount, half for leisure, half for getting to places and I can tell you the main reason why one of my next bikes is going to be an e bike: sweat.

I sweat more than most people unfortunately, and I live in a moderately hilly city (300ft hills all around the area) that is very humid and hot in the summer. I absolutely love biking to work, the store, etc, but it's uncomfortable and embarrassing to be drenched with sweat after a 10 minute bike ride.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#207

Post by locusm »

masklinn wrote: post #90
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whose performance bottlenecks are imposed by the bike instead of themselves I'm a fluid dynamics researcher, and I'll tell you the money these people spend on "aero" and "weight saving" and "higher drivetrain efficiency" stuff is 99.9% snake oil. Unless you are among the top 1000 road bike racers in the world. Increasing your exercise load by half an hour per week, or spending a little time understanding and implem…

> I'm a fluid dynamics researcher, and I'll tell you the money these people spend on "aero" and "weight saving" and "higher drivetrain efficiency" stuff is 99.9% snake oil. Unless you are among the top 1000 road bike racers in the world. So, biking audiophilia.

Carbon frames are worth it for the damping factor alone if you ride for more than an hour a week IMHO.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#208

Post by reportingsjr »

masklinn wrote: post #98
technofiend wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah excellent question. Hot and humid climates make this appealing if you don't need to pedal; perhaps you can get to work without needing a shower. But considering the likely cost due to name, weight and components it feels very niche nonetheless. It's difficult to justify a bike that's thousands when an annual bus pass might be a few hundred.

> It's difficult to justify a bike that's thousands when an annual bus pass might be a few hundred. 2000 is table stakes for quality ebikes.

This is not true, radpower has a pretty dang nice ebike for ~$1100.

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#209

Post by c0nsumer »

gameswithgo wrote: post #178
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an engineer and a biker. If you only look at the numbers or try to run simplistic calculations, it's easy to think that bikers are just deluding themselves. But there's more to it than just numbers on paper, and there's more to biking than just riding in a straight line from point A to point B. Carbon fiber frames aren't just about saving weight. The Carbon Fiber has different flexibility and damping properties t…

if you do the math you can quickly prove to yourself that reduced inertia isn’t doing anything for you. you then either have to conclude that newtonian mechanics does not apply to bikes or perception can’t be trusted! if you do a blind experiment, where you don’t know the wheels under you, or a third party adds weights to the rim you can demonstrate this. be sure to use the same tires, at the same pressure, as tires…

Done it. The place I most notice lightweight wheels are when climbing slowly on steep mountain bike stuff. Climbing like this is not a steady application of power like steady riding on the road; it's a series of small accelerations. When doing this lighter wheels are incredibly noticeable.

You also probably won't see this in your PM data unless you're getting data on partial pedal strokes.

More steady power stuff like on the road, climbing fast, etc? I agree that lower wheel weight just isn't something you'll notice. (Very good evidence for this is riding a fatbike on a fast rolling dirt road ride vs. climbing very steep fire roads.)

Re: Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

#210

Post by reportingsjr »

crispyambulance wrote: post #202
_verandaguy wrote: post #5

Coming from conventional bikes, I don't understand who this is for. Carbon fibre frames are prohibitively expensive and the market for them serves very involved, often professional or semi-pro cyclists whose performance bottlenecks are imposed by the bike instead of themselves. Ditto for some of the other details on the bike, like the medium-dish carbon rims — all for the sake of weight savings and aerodynamics (sinc…

You're right about all the contradictions with this bike. It doesn't make any sense from either a utilitarian or sport point of view. But fancy carbon bikes have a robust market with 40-somethings who like to ride and have significant disposable income, it's the market that "Rapha" is going for. This bike is for a similar market which perhaps isn't quite able to get aero anymore but would still like something sporty…

You're spot on. I made this same comment elsewhere. There is a large market for this age group that isn't being tapped by bike makers. It's a shame, because biking is an incredible way for people to stay very fit and healthy.
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