‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#331

Post by TACIXAT » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #209

TACIXAT wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the Hispanic and Black representation? I see 3/15 people on that page being women, not a very strong point for a group that is 50% of the population. This is the standard SV makeup. Do a random sample of any large tech company and this is the team you’d get. This tells me they’re not doing anything different.

Why should any company or board reflect the population?

When companies do not reflect the population then it shows that some races do not have the same opportunity as others.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#332

Post by baryphonic » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:11 AM UTC

bellevue wrote: post #292

throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

100% agree. I saw some of the shit posted about this on Cryptocurrency forums when Coinbase posted their weird tirade about wanting to be "neutral and apolitical" with regards to social justice and a few days ago about how everything is a lie as they tried to pre-empt this article. It all feels of gaslighting and has a shit ton of people buying into it. At the end of the day, the best thing for Coinbase employees to…

> At the end of the day, the best thing for Coinbase employees to do is to jump ship to a competitor (I for one, am happy to give a referral to any Coinbase employee who is leaving due to all this) - but absolutely vile that they would try to buy-out all POC in the company.

What makes you think POC are equivalent with woke activists? That seems a bit like stereotyping to me. It also seems to contradict actual data.[1] While most black Americans agree that racial issues are still serious problems, they tend not to endorse the extreme progressive interpretations and policy recommendations.

If I were to guess, tech workers are much more likely to be progressive activists than workers in most other industries. This includes the (shamefully small) number of black tech workers as well. But at the same time, almost all of the activists are white.

[1] see appendix 1.1.1 https://hiddentribes.us/pdf/hidden_tribes_report.pdf

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#333

Post by tptacek » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:12 AM UTC

2-tpg wrote: post #327

tptacek wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment I replied to appears to have been substantially edited in the time since I've replied to it. Sure. You can: * Not specifically require Black employees to relocate to different cities while giving non-Black employees the opportunity to work out out whatever the nearest office is. * Treat Black employees respectfully in meetings. * Not allow people who manage Black employees to mock them for being drug deal…

No edit, I just replied to you in my previous comment. Are you under the impression that Coinbase makes Work-From-Home decisions based on the skin-color of their employees? If yes (which it seems like to me), I'd like to learn more about that, and your reasoning. Am I oblivious to modern work-place racism? Imperceptive? Naive? Defending vile racists? I'd like to reconsider those questions on a more informed ground. M…

I am under the impression that Coinbase demanded that the Black employees of the compliance group relocate to PDX so that the whole group could work out of the same office, and then exempted a white worker in the same group from that requirement.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#334

Post by adjkant » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

jlokier wrote: post #318

adjkant wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they made their choice - their employees believed their company was not supporting them as people and forced the issue. Coinbase then chose its side. Is there anything more to say?

From those actions alone you can't determine if Coinbase rejected George Floyd/BLM, or rejected all kinds of slogan chanting that the CEO was pressured to chant by strikes. It was, after all the first time he was pressured that way.

I disagree from my interpretation of what we do know. They could have made the case about that specifically if they wanted to, but they decided to deflect with a blanket policy on politics. To say we can't determine anything is silly - we're making best guess judgements, not trying Coinbase in court for murder.

I've made this comment elsewhere, but I really would love to know why people are digging in so hard here. Let's just call a spade a spade.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#335

Post by function_seven » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

mssundaram wrote: post #321

neilv wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you spoke up, and maybe I and others should've. There are some kinds of topics that I can immediately guess will invite certain kinds of comments on HN, and I've learned to just take a deep breath and ignore them. (If it gets really bad, I go catch up on that other Web site that does over-the-top criticism of HN, so that I don't feel like the only one.) On rare occasions, I've tried to engage some of the, bu…

> I go catch up on that other Web site that does over-the-top criticism of HN, so that I don't feel like the only one Which is that, if you can share?

It's n-gate [dot] com

I think you have to type in that URL. If the referrer is set to this site, you get goatse'd or something.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#336

Post by triceratops » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

blub wrote: post #250

throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

When accusations of racism are being thrown around carelessly and people are having their reputations destroyed and lives turned upside down because of a single thing they (allegedly) said, the potential future targets of these accusations realize that the stakes just became much higher for them. So why would they support and enable those that might come for their own heads next? It's rational to be antagonistic in s…

> people are having their reputations destroyed and lives turned upside down because of a single thing they (allegedly) said

Then perhaps you can find it in you to empathize with the black folks who are scared of the police, and can begin to understand BLM. You have something in common with them.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#337

Post by cbthrow91 » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:15 AM UTC

cbthrow91 wrote: post #311

tptacek wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we take the articles claims at face value, what we know is: * There was an existing compliance department. * It had several remote team members. * The company opened a compliance office in PDX. * The company required Black team members to relocate to PDX or apply for new jobs. * The company allowed a non-Black team member to remain in PHL and work out of the NYC office. * Multiple sources claimed that the PHL empl…

It's unclear but I think when it's mentioned PHL employee is able to work remote, they mean they are able to work out of the NYC office which is remote relative to the PDX office. It was not my read that they are working remote from home. Your wording speculates on how the communication around remote was delivered in an unfavorable light. We know the decision was made to end WFH/remote, and one employee managed to ge…

@tptacek: you are imputing a motivation out of thin air. having fought hard for wfh/remote at companies against it, I can imagine far more benign reasons to be plausible.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#338

Post by nilkn » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

[Thank you for all your advice -- it's greatly appreciated. I've edited this post since it included a few personal details that I don't want permanently attached to my account on here. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.]

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#339

Post by __float » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

disown wrote: post #302

> at least 11 of them informed the human resources department or their managers about what they said was racist or discriminatory treatment ... One Black employee said her manager suggested in front of colleagues that she was dealing drugs and carrying a gun, trading on racist stereotypes. In an era of smartphones and viral videos, the fact that we don't have a single audio/video recording exposing the racism seems r…

> In an era of smartphones and viral videos, the fact that we don't have a single audio/video recording exposing the racism seems rather suspect. I'm not saying that is proof of anything. But something to consider.

Do you regularly record interactions with your coworkers, on the chance they may say something incriminating? I don't, and I expect most would not try to record things at work unless they go into a meeting expecting it to end poorly.

> The problem is the lack of qualified employees.

This sounds awfully similar to the argument made against women: qualified women just don't apply! Unfortunately, that is not actually true. http://isitapipelineproblem.com/

You seem to accept Coinbase/Brian Armstrong's words without question. Why do you feel that the Black employees' words must be critiqued to hell and back?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#340

Post by 2-tpg » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #291

2-tpg wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take it to court then. Collect circumstantial evidence and allow for an objective ruling on discrimination and racism in the workplace. If the circumstantial he-said she-said is of any substance, you can prove your guilt. Don't do trial by (social) media. Especially when your accusations are incredibly heavy and damaging. Don't play judge when you are not capable of objectively looking at all the presented evidence.…

From the article: >Ms. Sawyerr said she had talked with four other Black employees about bringing a discrimination lawsuit against Coinbase, but the others backed out after being offered hefty severance payments in exchange for confidentiality agreements. It never went to court because almost everyone involved was incentivized for it to not end up in court. Going to court is often a difficult, expensive, and likely d…

> Ms. Sawyerr said ...

Of course she said that. Big bad company silenced her co-suiters with money, after their spy devision learned that she was bringing suit. Now she has no recourse to go court herself, she absolutely needed those four other employees.

> The lack of a court case has nothing to do with the amount of evidence or the truthfulness of the accusations here.

It allows me to disqualify it as hearsay, and it allows you to think they offered severance payments, with the purpose to keep legit actual racism out of the courts.

Intent is of utmost importance for the law. Every lawyer and judge will agree to that. Punishment is increased for bad willful intent.