McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses • Hacker News Board

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#11

Post by johnisgood » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:21 AM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #6

ashneo76 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. So much this. If everyone can realize this. We all are nothing but resources for companies, politicians and law enforcement is there to help the prior two. It really is us the people that they are afraid of.

If you’re cynical enough, you could easily argue that every relationship that any person has is based on nothing more than resources. Somebody claims to love their wife? Unlikely. They’re just looking for some love and fulfilment resource. Do you really like your friends? Or do you just like the way friendship makes you feel?

Maybe we are doing what we are doing to either to:

"relieve personal distress (e.g. discomfort from the situation),

avoid self-punishment (e.g. feelings of guilt),

avoid social-punishment (e.g. looking bad to others),

obtain rewards from self or others (e.g. praise, pride),

gain a mood-enhancing experience (e.g. feel glad someone was helped)."[1]

[1] https://iep.utm.edu/psychego/

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#12

Post by xoxoy » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:22 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #9

xoxoy wrote: post #8

I don’t really understand the rebate strategy here. They told Purdue to literally go to CVS and tell them “we are going to pay you a bonus for every overdose you cause?” How does CVS interplay with the doctors who are doing the actual prescribing? I guess I don’t understand how a rebate change anything at CVS. Aren’t they just filling the prescription?

I am guessing that it was meant as legal/political/social cover? Hazard pay for the potential litigation they might face? CVS put some limits on opioid prescriptions: https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/21/cvs-opioid-prescription-...

isn’t CVS just doing whatever the doctor is prescribing without any judgement? i don’t see how CVS would be liable here unless they failed to verify the authenticity of a prescription or something on purpose.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#13

Post by bhickey » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:23 AM UTC

xoxoy wrote: post #12

MattGaiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am guessing that it was meant as legal/political/social cover? Hazard pay for the potential litigation they might face? CVS put some limits on opioid prescriptions: https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/21/cvs-opioid-prescription-...

isn’t CVS just doing whatever the doctor is prescribing without any judgement? i don’t see how CVS would be liable here unless they failed to verify the authenticity of a prescription or something on purpose.

The pharmacist might be otherwise discouraged from keeping oxy in stock.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#14

Post by MattGaiser » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:24 AM UTC

xoxoy wrote: post #12

MattGaiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am guessing that it was meant as legal/political/social cover? Hazard pay for the potential litigation they might face? CVS put some limits on opioid prescriptions: https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/21/cvs-opioid-prescription-...

isn’t CVS just doing whatever the doctor is prescribing without any judgement? i don’t see how CVS would be liable here unless they failed to verify the authenticity of a prescription or something on purpose.

It doesn't prevent them from being sued and incurring costs as a result or having to spend resources complying with investigations.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#15

Post by AmericanChopper » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

curiousllama wrote: post #7

AmericanChopper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re cynical enough, you could easily argue that every relationship that any person has is based on nothing more than resources. Somebody claims to love their wife? Unlikely. They’re just looking for some love and fulfilment resource. Do you really like your friends? Or do you just like the way friendship makes you feel?

Only if you define resource so broadly as to constitute anything, at which point the statement becomes “all relationships are based on things” ... which, like, yes of course

Whether resources are material or not isn’t relevant. The attention, care, kindness, compassion that a person has to offer others is a resource (and a finite one at that). The basis of the claim is that these entities are viewing other people as nothing more than what those people have to offer them. If you prescribe to the doctrine of psychological egoism, then that is how every single person views every single relationship they have (intentionally or otherwise).

I would say that’s a rather cynical way to view the world (others would say it’s just a factual perspective). But if you view this scenario from that perspective, there’s no logical reason that you shouldn’t also view the relationships you have with your own spouse/parents/children/friends... the same way.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#16

Post by jakelazaroff » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

It's absolutely infuriating that no one is being prosecuted over this.

Meanwhile, Kalief Browder was jailed without trial for three years — for allegedly stealing a backpack. We truly do have two justice systems.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#17

Post by hehetrthrthrjn » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

xoxoy wrote: post #12

MattGaiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am guessing that it was meant as legal/political/social cover? Hazard pay for the potential litigation they might face? CVS put some limits on opioid prescriptions: https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/21/cvs-opioid-prescription-...

isn’t CVS just doing whatever the doctor is prescribing without any judgement? i don’t see how CVS would be liable here unless they failed to verify the authenticity of a prescription or something on purpose.

The pharmacist is supposed to make sure that the patient isn't being harmed by the medication.

That's the theory. In reality it's just as you say.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#18

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:38 AM UTC

I feel like this isn’t the first time McKinsey has been caught encouraging or enabling some pretty horrific stuff. It’s probably time they get some prosecutorial attention.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#19

Post by sb057 » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:38 AM UTC

Another gem:

>Those records show that McKinsey was helping Purdue find a way “to counter the emotional messages from mothers with teenagers that overdosed” from OxyContin.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#20

Post by jrumbut » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:39 AM UTC

xoxoy wrote: post #12

MattGaiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am guessing that it was meant as legal/political/social cover? Hazard pay for the potential litigation they might face? CVS put some limits on opioid prescriptions: https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/21/cvs-opioid-prescription-...

isn’t CVS just doing whatever the doctor is prescribing without any judgement? i don’t see how CVS would be liable here unless they failed to verify the authenticity of a prescription or something on purpose.

Pharmacies, in practice, have some autonomy in what they do and especially in what they make it easy to do.

If you have a doctor who writes prescriptions by hand try taking it to different pharmacies, you'll find the procedures are rather different.