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Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

thewalrus.ca

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Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#91
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. I live in the Netherlands and that seems to be roughly what happened here too. ~~I mean, yes the prices have dropped a tiny bit around 2008, but in 2009 they were at an all time high again and have not come down.~~ EDIT: This was a lie, turns out they bottomed out around 2013 at ~25% below the 2008 peak. I live in a 'provincial' city, where prices are ~40-50% of what you mig…

I also live in the Netherlands. I am starting to believe there is something a bit more nefarious at play here. Anyone who is in power owns a house. Anyone who owns a house profits from house prices increasing. Who benefits if house prices go down? A select few, who are currently unable to buy a house. There is little incentive to actually start building affordable housing. Actually, most people who already own house(…

The nefarious thing is that nobody wants currency, markets are over priced and investors need collateral. So, they go to the banks who in turn sell outrageous mortgages to home owners.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#92
post #46

Ah, the difference between Europe and America. Here, a 300-400sqft single-bedroom apartmant would be considered standard and suitable for a single or 2-person household with median income. A two-bedroom 500-600 sqft apt would be considered just fine for most families with 1 or two kids (esp. if those kids are same gender or while they're small). Anything above that gets you into upper-middle class or above. Alternati…

Many new build US apartments though large in floor area seem to be really poorly designed. When I first moved to the US I lived in an ~800 sqft 1 bedroom apartment. A deep dark cave with windows on only one smaller side.

It was so much worse than the 1970s ~600 sqft 2 bedroom apartment I had previously lived in in England. While smaller, the two bed apartment felt larger since it had separate rooms, not just a bedrooom, bathroom and a single large open plan area.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#93

I don't have a clue what any solution looks like or even what problem is trying to be solved. Growing up in the USA home "ownership" is always touted as an investment but for example in Japan, it's often more like buying a car. The moment you buy it it's a used house and the price goes down just like a car would. The point being home ownership is viewed differently. Also, the recent episode of the Flash Forward podca…

What is going on is the implied idea that minimum wage is normal, or that minimum wage supports a family. It's neither. When minimum wage is low, it is how teenagers get some spending money and some employment references. When minimum wage is high, it's the cause of hidden lower-wage illegal employment that ignores worker safety regulations.

The traditional norm for the USA is a 3-bedroom house. This provides a room for parents, a room for boys, and a room for girls. It isn't expected to be affordable on the minimum wage, and people would promptly bid the prices up if it were.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#94
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that in general, the drive to push as many people as possible into places as tight as possible, like high density urban areas, is abnormal? People by nature love to enjoy space, and this is what U.S. has in abundance. Work on making geographic location less important, on decreasing the value of being in a particular place. Embrace remote work. It will solve the "housing crisis". Forcing millions of ad…

Do you think dorms are less ugly than suburban sprawl or endless exapanse of ranches? I mean how many places in the US can you find a 5mi x 5mi square of land unmolested?

Depending on what you mean by "unmolested", a 5mi x 5mi square of land is really easy to get in most of the USA. (probably weeds, not pristine old-growth forest) It's pretty cheap, and there won't be any utility bills to pay. You can use it to graze cattle or something like that.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the supply front, both Toronto and Vancouver have densified _significantly_ over the last 10-20 years, with condo construction in Vancouver completely off the charts. It seems to have done little to alleviate issues. Immigration combined with net migration into the city is a big part of it, I guess. But I am not convinced this is entirely an issue of supply constraints, as high pricing is no longer confined to the…

There are a lot of issues, and densification is certainly happening in the downtown cores, but I don't believe it is enough to keep up with the demands put on it by population increases. More anecdata: I live walking distance to Downtown Vancouver, and within a block of 4 bus routes. There is an empty lot next to me that has been in the permitting process for more than two years for a lowrise mixed-use building. I wo…

Low rates/cheap money is insane. We are on a variable rate mortgage, and our interest rate is 1.4%!! But it's actually the second time I've had a rate this low, we had a similar phenomenon after 2008 at some point.

I live in the exurbs, over an hour from Toronto, but a 3 bedroom home near my daughter's school in the small town / 905 suburb nearby just sold almost $100k over list, at over $1.5M. Absolutely insane.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#96
I don’t believe that there is a shortage of homes. The demand we are seeing is driven by investment. There are many more empty and low-use properties out there than most would suspect.

Hear me out.

Reported vacancy rates (the ones you’ll hear quoted in the media) are usually discovered by asking real estate agencies how many of the properties on their books are currently available to rent.

Actual empty residences are harder to quantify. There are two studies I’m aware of that attempt to do this. In Melbourne, Australia (one of the ‘anglo’ places that suffers from this rampant property investment problem) there is the Speculative Vacancies Report[0] published each year by Prosper Australia. They determine which properties are empty using data from the water utilities companies. In the UK there is this study[1] where council data is used to determine the number of ‘Low Use Properties’ (LUP’s) in various jurisdictions.

From the first study (Melbourne), I remember one interesting finding was that the higher the capital gains in an area, the higher the vacancy rate tended to be. And the vacancy rates were sometimes very high. I remember them being over 25% in Docklands (Melbourne’s Canary Wharf) and around 10% in many other areas maybe five years ago. Completely unintuitive. Surely those places should have a relatively low rate of empty properties if they are such desirable places to live (as the rapidly rising prices suggest).

From the second study (UK), it’s clear that the higher the value of properties in an area, the higher the number of LUP’s.

Curious about what the case might be in New Zealand (where the property market is similar - if not worse - than places like Canada, the UK, and Australia) I went looking for statistics. I found two that are relevant. The number of households and the number of private dwellings. Obviously every household must have a dwelling, so the difference should give an indication of the situation. This data goes back to the mid 90s. Turns out that back then (when house prices were sane) the difference was around 3.5%. Today it is more like 7%. Those are national averages. From the studies mentioned above I expect that the percentage of empty and low use properties would be highest in the major cities (where prices and capital gains are highest). I wouldn’t be surprised if 10% of properties in the cities are empty or getting very little use.

I used to work as a postie (mailman). I saw firsthand how many houses were empty. The wealthiest streets always had the most (owners were away on holiday for 6 months or a year at a time, living elsewhere while renovating or planning to ‘flip’, the property was on the market, it was a second home, etc). In one particularly nice street, over 25% of the houses didn’t have residents at any one time.

This housing affordability issue doesn’t need a supply side solution. A speculative boom creates extra demand. The solution is to make property a less attractive investment.

[0] https://www.prosper.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Specul... [1] https://theodi.org/event/friday-lunchtime-lecture-empty-home...

Edit: A holiday home used to be an expense. Now it's an investment. That's a problem.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#97
post #6

The best solution to the housing crisis ever discovered thus far is widespread remote work. This allows people who don’t want to live in major cities the ability to live anywhere, reducing the cost for those that do want to live in a city.

I don't think this will help much at all. Maybe for a few, but I doubt it will reduce costs for city-dwellers. If you have any ambition, your networking is severely limited. If you have any desire to find a mate, your pool has decreased rapidly. If you want to see a concert or go to a new restaurant, you have far less options.

Some cities make it really hard to reasonably commute (for business or pleasure) from more moderately-priced properties. For many other cities though, a 60-90 minute drive--or sometimes train--does, which is generally reasonable for a sometimes commute or a night on the town. (And remember that many of the tech and other good jobs aren't even in the city; they're out in the suburbs somewhere.)

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese building practices assume a certain disposability that we haven't accepted in Canada. Apartment buildings are built with an assumed lifespan of around 30 years. I have no idea if that is a good thing or a bad thing. That kind of throwaway mentality for housing might seem crazy, but keep in mind that housing is one of the only goods that we expect to last for a lifetime in the west.

I'm not sure most NA houses are so different. For instance, cheap floor treatments, drywall + stickbuilt, multipane windows that leak after a decade or two.

What are the "cheap floor treatments" and why would drywall or a house made of wood mean that a house won't last more than 30 years? There are plenty of houses built in the 90s with wood that are not just fine, but look practically new and modern.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#99

The housing crisis is really a people refuse to leave Toronto and Vancouver crisis, no matter how little they make. It is also a refusal to live in anything without a lawn. Imagine if San Francisco had wages which were often lower than Cleveland for many jobs, but had the same housing prices. That is the state of Toronto and Vancouver. Incomes there are lower than other Canadian cities. The other issue is that Canadi…

> The housing crisis is really a people refuse to leave Toronto and Vancouver crisis, no matter how little they make.

This is because there are two working adults in most families nowadays and not just one.

So, if you move, your salary increase must account for the time your partner doesn't have salary or has decreased salary. In addition, your salary increase needs to account for the fact that you will have to move back to the city when, not if, your job disappears.

That means that your salary has to go up a LOT in order to leave the city area.

A 25% salary increase isn't enough incentive--your salary effectively needs to double. And the way you make that happen? You hook up with a FAANG and move to one of the overcrowded, overpriced cities.

A lot of our current economic ills are because you need two salaries in order to survive in this economy, and it freezes the migration of labor.

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