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Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

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Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#171

Post by mikelward »

makomk wrote: post #31
iso1631 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick scan of the complaint indicated they might have a case -- trademarks are important to protect the consumer. However watching the infringing video, he goes to great length to make it clear how it's in the style of Grana Pedano, it's not actually Grana Pedano. His "Feta" video on his channel's home page is more supicious in my layman opinion.

As I understand it, EU Protected Designation of Origin rules are really broad and ban you from even describing a cheese as being in the style of Grana Padano or Parmesan, at least when selling it commercially. They're not just about protecting the consumer but a kind of protectionism. So ever since the protection was extended to the word Parmesan (for a while only Parmigiano-Reggiano was protected) supermarkets here…

Pasta cheese?

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#172

Post by M2Ys4U »

tgv wrote: post #60
giorgioz wrote: post #47

Also the youtuber set the video preview screenshot to showing only an image with written "Grana padano" https://www.youtube.com/c/GavinWebber/search?query=grana%20p... It seems to me the youtuber is clearly exploiting the name Grana Padano to gain views. As much as Trademarks can't be used freeily by other users so you can't use products of Denominazione di Origine Controllata (Controlled Origin Denomination). Imagin…

As long as the recipe isn't copyrighted, or obtained while under an NDA, I don't see the problem. The trademark is not being used to sell cheese. If we follow your style of reasoning strictly, it would also be forbidden to make videos or documentaries like "How Coca Cola became a success in the Soviet Union" or "Animals tortured in test lab" (although for the latter case, there would obviously be a need to substantia…

>The trademark is not being used to sell cheese.

But it's not a trademark, it's a PDO. They're two different types of exclusive right.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#173

Post by wolco2 »

sulam wrote: post #162
blunte wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't imagine why Australian wine needs protection... Who would try to copy it?

Sorry, gonna go out on a limb and say you don’t try a lot of wines. Australia has some really great wines, both reds (Shiraz) and more recently whites (their Chardonnays are as good most of Napa’s). Their wine production is ~half of the USA, despite their much lower population and they export quite a lot of it (40 or 50%, I forget the exact number).

China just put 200% duties on any wine products from Australia so it might be a good time to import the excess.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#174

Post by M2Ys4U »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #58
giorgioz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well to start he didn't write "style" on the video screenshot preview, he just wrote Grana Padano. Also he could have made a video generically called "How to make parmesan style cheese" but he decided instead to use the very specific protected product Grana Padano. To me it doesn't seem fair use and there is a monetary incentive for the youtuber to use the term Grana Padano to have more views and/or get paid more by…

To me it doesn't seem fair use and there is a monetary incentive for the youtuber to use the term Grana Padano to have more views and/or get paid more by Youtube for views. But the whole point of a trademark is to reference the thing that is trademarked. As long as it is clear that he's not affiliated with them then I think it is fair. If he said unofficial guide to make Grana Padano. Or my recipe that's better than…

>But the whole point of a trademark is to reference the thing that is trademarked.

But "Grana Padano" is not a trademark. It's a protected designation of origin.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#175

Post by M2Ys4U »

cowpig wrote: post #151
wackget wrote: post #146

Surely the uploader could just re-title it "Home-made cheese inspired by Grana Padano". I doubt there'd be any legal issues with that.

There aren't any legal issues with this either. He's not selling the cheese, he's explaining how to make it. That's fair use, and the recipe for Grana Padano is public (defined in the law).

>That's fair use, and the recipe for Grana Padano is public

"Fair use" is an exception in copyright law - this isn't a copyright issue.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#176

Post by orestis »

kmeisthax wrote: post #155
iso1631 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I splat "Made in America" and an American flag on my crappy Chineese imports? Can I sell "Idaho potatoes" which were grown in Ireland? Can I buy "Florida orange juice" made with Brazillian oranges? One issue with a EU-US trade deal was that US farmers didn't want to have labelling rules to inform the consumer. Indeed they specifically wanted to remove the option that I, the consumer, had in deciding what to eat.…

The EU PDO scheme conflates geographic origin and a particular type of product in a way that is transparently protectionist and silly. When people say "feta cheese" or "american cheese", they're not asking for "made in Feta cheese" or "made in America cheese". They're asking for a particular flavor profile and cooking behavior, and possibly a specific method of manufacture. There is no particular reason why you can't…

Feta is not a region in Greece. Feta is a type of cheese that has the whole of Greece as the terroir. It’s also made with sheep and goat milk and the cow-based cheese that resembles it (white cheese, salad cheese etc) just doesn’t compare taste wise.

With all that said, if you see (in the EU) something being called Feta, you immediately know what it’s made of and that it’s made in Greece.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#177

Post by mamuf »

klipt wrote: post #153
avhon1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to discourage the usage of "something style" naming The law prohibits exactly this. From the Wikipedia article [1]: [Under Protected Geographical Status laws] it is also prohibited to combine the indication with words such as "style", "type", "imitation", or "method" in connection with the protected indications [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t...

So just use a green screen to make it look like you're in Italy and call your video "How to make Grana Padano"?

...and learn Italian as well.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#178

Post by olliej »

colechristensen wrote: post #13
olliej wrote: post #2

[edit: I just realized that the original video explicitly stated that this was a Grana Padano style cheese. The C&D tries to say he's teaching people how to make counterfeit cheese ?!??!?] The cease and desist is over the name, or more specifically using the name of the cheese when you aren't making it in the correct part of the world. This is a guy on YouTube describing how to make that cheese, the only thing he can…

I am absolutely fine with origin naming legal defenses. You can’t sell something as though it was made somewhere when it wasn’t. That is an entirely different issue than using naming rights to prevent people from making a similar agricultural product somewhere else, or sharing information about it using the name. The rights should extend to product labeling and thats it, and they do. This C&D to a youtuber is comical…

Why does origin naming only apply to "fancy" products from France and Italy - cheddar originates in England, but no one claims that cheese made exactly the same way elsewhere isn't cheddar.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#179

Post by olliej »

namdnay wrote: post #12
olliej wrote: post #2

[edit: I just realized that the original video explicitly stated that this was a Grana Padano style cheese. The C&D tries to say he's teaching people how to make counterfeit cheese ?!??!?] The cease and desist is over the name, or more specifically using the name of the cheese when you aren't making it in the correct part of the world. This is a guy on YouTube describing how to make that cheese, the only thing he can…

Puttin aside the absurdity of a C&D for some random youtuber showing how to replicate a particular cheese, I don't agree with "This kind of region-of-production-defines-the-allowed-name-of-identical-products idiocy is of course beyond stupid". If I want Roquefort I want Roquefort, not another blue cheese. No problem selling another cheese and putting it next to Roquefort in the stalls (looking at you Saint Agur..), b…

But Roquefort cheese is the combination of specific bacteria and production conditions. If I have the same ingredients and the same production technique and conditions, then the only difference is that one was made in a specific location, and one was not. So what if mine tastes slightly different? No cheeses produced in the same region and in the same way taste exactly the same.

As for your "another blue cheese" comment - if someone makes a blue cheese using different bacteria, techniques or conditions then it isn't a roquefort so shouldn't be able to be labeled as such. But that difference is due to the place of origin - if I made a generic cows milk blue cheese in the south of france I could claim it's a roquefort just because of the origin.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#180

Post by olliej »

globuous wrote: post #6
olliej wrote: post #2

[edit: I just realized that the original video explicitly stated that this was a Grana Padano style cheese. The C&D tries to say he's teaching people how to make counterfeit cheese ?!??!?] The cease and desist is over the name, or more specifically using the name of the cheese when you aren't making it in the correct part of the world. This is a guy on YouTube describing how to make that cheese, the only thing he can…

They like to do that with alcohol as well, scotch, bourbon, tennessee whiskey, champagne, cognac etc. I guess it's to protect producers. In a way, it's a nice protection against globalization. A microprocessor can be produced anywhere, champagne cannot ;p

Champagne can be produced in numerous areas, only they can only say they're using the champagne method. In fact the first actual records of sparkling wine predate the various French Champagne producers (e.g. Dom Pérignon) in Italy and England, with some suggestion it was England first due to their stronger glass and tendency to add the necessary sugar to wine - for example there's no documentation of why Dom Pérignon spontaneously switch to bottling wine. The English were also the first to see the bubbles as an advantage.

The original French champagne was a flat wine, so maybe Champagne from the Champagne region of France should actually be flat and sparkling champagne (from England) be renamed?

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