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Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

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Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#71

Post by gherkinnn »

langitbiru wrote: post #44
somedude895 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree. Apparently it's very hard to get funding for novel ideas in Switzerland. And yes, risk aversion is a big part of Swiss culture, an example of which being that Swiss are some of the most over-insured people, and savings rates also regularly top the charts. A fairly egalitarian society with a high standard of living makes for a people that doesn't like or "have to" take risks

And there is a quote: "In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack o…

That's from Jeremy Clarkson, innit?

Despite that quote being mostly wrong [0][1], a safety net might account for some idleness. But there's more. You might find a local variation of the Law of Jante [2], for example.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_clock#First_modern_cuck...

2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#72

Post by proxyrax »

phillc73 wrote: post #68
proxyrax wrote: post #62

I wish. I hold a citizenship in an EU country (Lithuania) and would love to spend some time working in Europe closer to family. Swiss/EU bilateral agreements would allow me to work there easily, but every time I do some research it seems the (lack of) bureaucracy, compensation, and culture of innovation just pales in comparison to US tech hubs. Here in the US, I can spin up an LLC by clicking a few buttons on one of…

The ease of starting a Limited company in Lithuania is really interesting. I used to start UK Ltd companies really easily, but with them exiting the EU, the best alternative I've found so far is Ireland or Estonia, but both are somewhat expensive. Although not compared to starting a GmbH in Austria or Germany. I learned through bitter experience that Malta has some yearly auditing requirements, which make everything…

I realized after posting, I should've specified that for me, "here" is the US. My US-centrism is showing, sorry!

Lithuania is trying hard to make it easier, but they're still leaps and bounds behind the US IMO.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#73

Post by TomVDB »

One of my friends moved back from the Bay Area to Switzerland with his family. While he's happy that he's close to his family again, there's no question that he went from a place where engineers are at the top of the food chain to one where it's all about bankers and finance.

And the salary reflects that.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#74

Post by durnygbur »

langitbiru wrote: post #44
somedude895 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree. Apparently it's very hard to get funding for novel ideas in Switzerland. And yes, risk aversion is a big part of Swiss culture, an example of which being that Swiss are some of the most over-insured people, and savings rates also regularly top the charts. A fairly egalitarian society with a high standard of living makes for a people that doesn't like or "have to" take risks

And there is a quote: "In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack o…

> they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

Hey, the Swiss evolved the cuckoo clock into a wristwatch... nope, even this innovation was by two Polish and Czech immigrants.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#77

Post by izacus »

aphroz wrote: post #3

Not at all. Yes Switzerland is probably the best country if you want to follow the rules, have a good quality of life and good education for your children. Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges. This is due to the mentality of the population and the risk aversion of the investors. From a Swiss person.

Exactly. It's an amazing place to live, has good tech scene, but it's not Silicon Valley. Also the economic focus is completely different - they focus on small enterprises and medium sized businesses which form a significantly more resilient economy (there's a reason why Switzerland did rather well in this pandemic).

Asking why the Swiss don't invest in same industries like Californians do would be like asking Morrocans why they don't fund an Alpine ski jumping team.

It's a fundamentally different focus - is that so hard to understand to people living in the Valley? That not all economies see the value in javascript webpages?

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#78

Post by leifg »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #49
leifg wrote: post #34

Other places that have been described to me as the "Silicon Valley of Europe": - London - Berlin - Munich - Barcelona - Lisbon - Karlsruhe And these are only the places I have lived (+ I also lived in SF). Trust me it's pretty much true for none of them.

Silicon Valley probably just means highly paid engineering jobs for those journalists

Even that is only somewhat true for London and Munich

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#79

Post by durnygbur »

dbspin wrote: post #45
somedude895 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree. Apparently it's very hard to get funding for novel ideas in Switzerland. And yes, risk aversion is a big part of Swiss culture, an example of which being that Swiss are some of the most over-insured people, and savings rates also regularly top the charts. A fairly egalitarian society with a high standard of living makes for a people that doesn't like or "have to" take risks

I don't know how egalitarian it is. Having visited Geneva and spoken with many people there about the crazy high cost of living - it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work. That's an economy maintained by the indentured servitude of non-native people.

> it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work

My interviews with Swiss companies when discussing the employment form usually turn to "you can live in France and commute daily to Switzerland". Yeah, thanks no thanks.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#80

Post by HPsquared »

gherkinnn wrote: post #71
langitbiru wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there is a quote: "In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack o…

That's from Jeremy Clarkson, innit? Despite that quote being mostly wrong [0][1], a safety net might account for some idleness. But there's more. You might find a local variation of the Law of Jante [2], for example. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_clock#First_modern_cuck... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

It's said by Orson Welles' character in "The Third Man" (1949). Famous quote, allegedly ad-libbed: https://youtu.be/I8RW3K3hhWU
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