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Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

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Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#141
post #59

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO. I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea. It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent. The mind sha…

> The mind share for that word went down. Instead we found ourselves hearing people asking for Prosecco or bubbly. Champagne might now be able to assert that only the'quality' product from their region has the name, but I suspect it's just caused the companies that produce wine to make sure that they own the trademark, and push their brand, not the term champagne. Regardless of whether it's from that region.

I haven't noticed a substantial change. Most people in the US I meet that aren't really into wine still use "champagne" to refer to sparkling wine. I was actually looking at making mimosas the other day and picked out a bottle of okay sparkling wine (it seems silly to mix expensive wine with OJ to me), and my SO commented that mimosas she thought mimosas had to use champagne. I picked her brain about it (I was shocked someone would pay for champagne for a normal Saturday mimosa), and she thought champagne was a totally distinct thing from sparkling wine. She thought sparkling wine was force carbonated like beer, or maybe just flat wine mixed with seltzer water like a wine spritzer. She didn't know what prosecco was, and when I told her, she said she would call that champagne.

I don't think their campaign has had much of an effect on the average American. It makes a difference to connoisseurs, but the average American doesn't know the technical difference (and likely has never had true champagne, because of the relatively high price).

I find that's generally true of culinary things in America, though. Many of my friends buy their wine from gas stations and are happy with it, which I struggle with. They typically only stock bottom of the barrel stuff like Barefoot; the white wines taste more like apple juice with vodka mixed in it than a real wine. The reds are generally exceptionally sweet; even full bodied reds lack the flavor and feel of tannins (probably to increase the appeal among people that hear cabernet sauvignon is a good wine, but don't know they don't like full bodied wines).

It's really a shame. There are some quite good wines in the cheap range (especially if you go for less traditional regions, like South Africa), but gas stations don't carry them and people tend to judge the region for unfair reasons. I get shocked looks if I open a bottle from Argentina or South Africa, as if wine is only meant for the wealthy and the grape vines can sense if they're in an economically disadvantaged country and will refuse to produce good grapes until you transplant them to a country with a higher GDP per capita.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#142
post #59

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO. I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea. It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent. The mind sha…

> The mind share for that word went down. Instead we found ourselves hearing people asking for Prosecco or bubbly. Champagne might now be able to assert that only the'quality' product from their region has the name, but I suspect it's just caused the companies that produce wine to make sure that they own the trademark, and push their brand, not the term champagne. Regardless of whether it's from that region. I haven'…

It's an interesting counter example. I don't consider myself much of a wine connoisseur (I rarely drink at all).

I do like to pay attention to it a little from a business perspective. It's one of so many interesting case studies of the differences between the perception of how it works and is owned and how it actually is.

It doesn't hurt that I actually spent a bunch of my teenage years picking grapes in a wine region in Australia. The fact that I can follow them from how their grown and fill in the ownership of the wine companies and the marketing.

Case in point, I'm in Estonia at the moment and among the Australian Wines on sale here is Yellow Tail. In Australia however it doesn't have much of a reputation. IMO It's not what you would pick if you were looking for a 'nice' local Australian wine. Yet it has global distribution and reach (I've seen it elsewhere as well).

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#143

I'd guess most of you don't know that "parmesan" (in the US, and elsewhere) is nothing like the real "parmigiano reggiano". It's tens of times cheaper to produce, and I'd venture to say that it might as well be several times less healthy than the original. Same thing for "grana padano". If you don't know anything about wood pulp in the parmesan, or fake olive oil, I suggest you read "real food, fake food" [0]. It ope…

That book is also on Kobo, for those of us who don't want to give more money to Amazon:

https://www.kobo.com/ca/en/ebook/real-food-fake-food

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#144
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is about protecting the consumer, because it prevents a million "grana padano alike cheese product " type products, like you'd get in markets where these rules don't exist.

> It is about protecting the consumer Nonsense. Protected origin status is protectionism plain and simple. That's not to say whether it's bad or good, just to call it what it is. Proliferation of confusing low quality lookalikes is prevented by having an enforced criteria and associated labeling requirements. (If the text is too small as in your example then either the labeling requirements aren't sufficient or they…

> Protected origin status is protectionism plain and simple. That's not to say whether it's bad or good, just to call it what it is.

It doesn't really protect anything except the name. Parmesan is protected, my local supermarket sells it right next to cheese that is not called Parmesan. I have yet to be arrested for buying the cheaper one.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#145

I'd guess most of you don't know that "parmesan" (in the US, and elsewhere) is nothing like the real "parmigiano reggiano". It's tens of times cheaper to produce, and I'd venture to say that it might as well be several times less healthy than the original. Same thing for "grana padano". If you don't know anything about wood pulp in the parmesan, or fake olive oil, I suggest you read "real food, fake food" [0]. It ope…

> I guess the reason why the Italian consortium sent this (otherwise stupid) cease-and-desist to this poor Australian guy, is because they're desperately trying to defend the real stuff from the fakes.

It's not "otherwise stupid" it _is_ stupid. They should be going after the counterfeiters not someone who is both trying to educate people on making as authentic a cheese as possible while simultaneously making very clear that his cheese is not a true grana padano. Personally after seeing the consortium act like this, I consider all their other actions suspect. In my mind, this weakens their legitimacy as an organization. I'm sure I'm not the only person with this reaction.

> I sympathize with the guy, but it's a global battle; and organizations that are supposed to defend the consumer are doing next to nothing (expecially in the US). This is not about protecting a "brand"; it's about the fact that when you buy grana padano in the US and it's made of sh*t, you as a consumer should be able to tell.

That has _nothing_ to do with this youtuber.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#147
post #59

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO. I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea. It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent. The mind sha…

The problem is that there are always others who will piggyback of your product to boost their own sales, while not maintaining the quality standards that led to the name recognition in the first place. In California they also sell "Californian Champagne", some legal quirk allows it. There is no problem with their wine, it's fine wine (the one time I had it). It's just NOT Champagne. That doesn't make it bad wine, but…

>Prosecco is also not Champagne

Indeed: Prosecco is a spumante.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are international conventions & treaties, to which the US is a signatory, that codify international trademark and IP law.

But the US being signatory to something does not mean that everybody else is a signatory too. The closest to that I could actually find is the World Intellectual Property Organization for trademarks. But afaik copyrights and patents entirely depend on separate registrations in the individual countries, the only thing the WIPO helps with patents is simplifying the patent application process by filing it in multiple co…

The American government insists that patents, trademarks, and copyrights are respected worldwide without jurisdiction because they got everyone else in the room to agree to do that in exchange for import market access. That's why the WTO TRIPS agreement exists. Everyone agreed to the same laws, and agreed to allow foreigners to sue domestic businesses, so it doesn't matter who has jurisdiction over what. America doesn't buy your cheese unless you agree to protect their movies. The only outliers are countries which have already pissed off America so much that market access without regime change is off the table. So, if you see someone say, for example, "but DMCA doesn't apply in my country", they're either wrong, or you should start looking up the export regulations involved with knowingly talking to Iranians before you wind up in federal prison.

This isn't even exclusively an American problem. The EU and Japan do it too, and more countries will start doing that as they start getting stronger domestic creative industries. The more money a country makes from owning copyrighted works, the more protection they will demand from other countries. Hell, the last major copyright term extension (the "Sonny Bono" one in the US) was started by the EU doing the same thing to America. The EU passed a term extension that had a reciprocality requirement: if America didn't agree to the term extension, then American works would enter the public domain in the EU quicker than EU-origin works did. This is a fiendishly clever way to ratchet in term extensions, and it works because the WTO treaties only specify maximums for copyright exceptions, not protection. You're always allowed to go stricter.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#150
post #18
post #8

A convenient link to the video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6T_BJjitGQ

A quick scan of the complaint indicated they might have a case -- trademarks are important to protect the consumer. However watching the infringing video, he goes to great length to make it clear how it's in the style of Grana Pedano, it's not actually Grana Pedano. His "Feta" video on his channel's home page is more supicious in my layman opinion.

Except he's not selling cheese, he's explaining how to make it. Which is fair use, and so they don't have anything resembling a case.
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