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How to Think for Yourself

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Think for Yourself

#281

Post by RickHull »

judofyr wrote: post #258
RickHull wrote: post #214

For those railing against this essay, who feel that PG is fluffing himself up and patting himself on the back like a nerdy middleschooler -- you've missed the big point, badly. PG writes unapologetically, directly, and simply, and this may pattern match to a naive middleschooler, but you are letting your base instincts cover up the fact that PG is wise, has earned his stripes, and is sharing his wisdom, unapologetica…

> He's writing to and for people like him, trying to help them put words and clear thought to vague understandings and apprehensions they've been wrestling with. Ah, yes, he's writing an article about how to think for yourself to the people who already think like him. So if we don't think like him, but rather in an independent way, then it makes sense that we wouldn't agree with this article. Got it!

Ha, you jest, but you bring up a subtle point. There are degrees and dimensions of similarity. For example, two people who uphold a principle of freedom of speech may nonetheless completely disagree on any particular issue. But they are very similar in an important way.

Do you value independent thinking? If so, what part of the article did you most disagree with?

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#282

Post by notahacker »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #96
austincheney wrote: post #89

The article mentions politically extreme politicians being niche conformists, point #7. I find the difference between an extreme politician and moderate one is that the moderates advocate for their constituents, which requires two things: listening to their constituents and compromising on political ideals to attain an interest desirable to their constituents. Extreme politicians instead tell you want your opinion is…

I think you have these two backwards. By definition a populist is promoting the rights and power of the people against privileged elite. It's no surprise the privileged elite consider populist an insult. And it's the moderates, the privileged elite, that have to instruct the proles about what's best for them.

By definition a populist claims to be promoting the rights and power of the people against a privileged elite. In many cases this involves instructing proles not to listen to any other views and especially not any criticism of their movement since these are falsehoods promoted to serve the interests of the elite, and sometimes flat out telling them what the popular will is supposed to be...

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#283

Post by Apocryphon »

spdionis wrote: post #268
baron_harkonnen wrote: post #131

PG sure has been on a kick about how brilliant of an independent thinker he is in a sea of conformity. It's clear in all of his writing that he's perpetually beating around the bush about some current itch he has, I wish he would just come out and say it with out pretending to be a deep thinker: > Do you want to do the kind of work where you can only win by thinking differently from everyone else? I mean, taken outsi…

While the rest of your post sounds reasonable: > Right now Silicon Valley VC thinking is the dominant ideology Are you sure? Are you talking about the US? And even then it's probably true for only ~half of the states? Are you talking about the business world? The whole of EU seems to strongly disagree with SV VC thinking. Edit: Why doesn't the EU replicate the success of US startups? You think EU policy makers don't…

If SV VC thinking wasn’t dominant, how come they’re so rich?

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#284

Post by galaxyLogic »

nobinstok wrote: post #270
fractionalhare wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This essay is an object lesson in how this leads to profoundly conventional thinking. This entire thing reads like it was torn from the journal of a clever middle-schooler who thinks he's so much more clever then the world. You've hit upon something that's always bothered me with this characterization of nerds. It's like if someone framed adult life by superimposing stereotypical high school nerd vs jock social dyn…

This reminds me of one of the more embarrassing episodes of my life. My friends and I (pretty nerdy types) were at a bar with an amateur MMA fighter. Guy was like 6'10", covered in huge muscles and tattoos. One of the nicest guys I've ever met, but you definitely wouldn't want to get on his bad side. Anyway we didn't know the guy too well, lots of getting-to-know you type stuff. The MMA fighter after a few hours ment…

It's not a moral thing. It's called inductive learning. We classify people and things based on our past experiences. The more experiences you have the better the inductive method works.

It's good to learn about black swans, else you might make the incorrect logical conclusion that swans are ALWAYS white. And more importantly learn that "black swans" is not only about swans. There can be sports-types who also like intellectual activity

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#287

Post by spdionis »

Apocryphon wrote: post #283
spdionis wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the rest of your post sounds reasonable: > Right now Silicon Valley VC thinking is the dominant ideology Are you sure? Are you talking about the US? And even then it's probably true for only ~half of the states? Are you talking about the business world? The whole of EU seems to strongly disagree with SV VC thinking. Edit: Why doesn't the EU replicate the success of US startups? You think EU policy makers don't…

If SV VC thinking wasn’t dominant, how come they’re so rich?

Using money as a proxy for "dominant thinking" is a good example of SV VC thinking.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#288

Post by moralsupply »

porpoise wrote: post #277
moralsupply wrote: post #263

To get negative votes in Hacker News: * Post something that is factual, but the crowd doesn't like * Post something that is logical, but the crowd doesn't like * Post a link to something reasonable, but that the crowd doesn't like Just to say that Hacker News is a highly biased community. There's very little space here to discuss anything that is not "conventional" beyond some bits of technology. When a topic touches…

I think it's still possible to go against conventional narrative on HN and get upvoted, but one needs to word one's comments with an extraordinary amount of extra care, completely stripped of sarcasm or confrontational tone, remaining objective even when under personal attack - in short, one is held to a much higher standard (in terms of quality and substance of comments) than those posting conventional opinion.

I agree with that. It generally applies to most online forums as well.

We don't tend to have a "thick skin" for ideas that make us uncomfortable.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#289

Post by blitztime »

This reminded me of a different article by Scott Alexander which also addresses the topic of certain ventures like the stock market and job interviewing being “anti-inductive” aka resistant to formulas that worked in the past. You could say that successful independent thinking is also a highly anti-inductive activity.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-ant...

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#290

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

I dunno. Like everything, we need balance. Brilliance needs to be balanced with patience, persistence and practicality.

Working for a Japanese corporation taught me to really respect the "three P's." They didn't have the kind of creativity to invent the next iPhone, but they had what it takes to make it better than everyone else, and in a fairly short time.

Great things are accomplished by great teams, and teams need a lot of variety to work properly. A team composed only of independent thinkers would be a never-ending gladiatorial contest, with the product being the main victim.

What does gall me, is the fairly naked disrespect that many brilliant folks have for the types of implementors that they need in order to realize their dreams. These engineers (and managers) are often treated as "dime a dozen," which is far from the truth.

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