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Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

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Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#131

Post by gruez »

Angostura wrote: post #117
vertis wrote: post #59

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO. I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea. It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent. The mind sha…

You have to defend it, or you lose it. Like trademarks.

I'm skeptical of this excuse, considering megacorps don't seem to be this zealous about defending their trademarks. For instance, Mcdonald's doesn't seem to mind people making youtube videos on how to make big mac sauce[1]. There's plenty of videos that don't even have the "style" qualifier and even go as far as claim it makes the original sauce.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=big+mac+sauce

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#132

Post by woofie11 »

bzb6 wrote: post #123
woofie11 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... more like European old wealth. There are land-owning European families whose wealth and power date back half a millennium. Most of these valued, recognizable products are mostly produced on land and capital owned by those families.

And? This sounds like the usual socialist argument of “tear it all down”—they’d rather all the money went to China than to wealthy locals which, let’s not forget, employ thousands.

Rereading my post, I can't find any sort of argument for either changing the system, keeping things as-is, or advocating for any sort of specific change.

Simply pattern-matching what people say to ideology is what leads to nothing getting done.

I'm not sure I have an opinion on what ought to be done. I do have an opinion that we should keep things fact-based. Licensing requirements protect entrenched interests. Is that a good thing? A bad thing? If there are problems, how should they be fixed?

Please try to discuss based on facts (or even your own opinions) rather than pattern-matching to an ideology you disagree with, and asking everyone to discount based on that.

All I did was point out a faulty argument. I didn't take a stance.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#133

Post by bzb6 »

woofie11 wrote: post #132
bzb6 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? This sounds like the usual socialist argument of “tear it all down”—they’d rather all the money went to China than to wealthy locals which, let’s not forget, employ thousands.

Rereading my post, I can't find any sort of argument for either changing the system, keeping things as-is, or advocating for any sort of specific change. Simply pattern-matching what people say to ideology is what leads to nothing getting done. I'm not sure I have an opinion on what ought to be done. I do have an opinion that we should keep things fact-based. Licensing requirements protect entrenched interests. Is th…

I am talking from my experience from living in the south of Spain. I know your argument, I know the kind of people who support it, and I know what it is and what it means.

You mentioned a common argument, I told you what I think of it.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#134

Post by TT3351 »

freeflight wrote: post #128
twoodfin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are international conventions & treaties, to which the US is a signatory, that codify international trademark and IP law.

But the US being signatory to something does not mean that everybody else is a signatory too. The closest to that I could actually find is the World Intellectual Property Organization for trademarks. But afaik copyrights and patents entirely depend on separate registrations in the individual countries, the only thing the WIPO helps with patents is simplifying the patent application process by filing it in multiple co…

Just as the case with US disrespect/neglect of provincial specific good restrictions, other countries also don't fully enforce our [American] notions of intellectual property rights.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#135

Post by ed25519FUUU »

avhon1 wrote: post #68
MakersF wrote: post #43

I think it's important to notice that the point is not to keep how to make the cheese secret. The recipe for the cheese is actually encoded in the law, and you can download it freely ( https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/it/consorzio-disciplinare... , in italian). During lockdown I was trying to make a regional cheese, and the law was the best recipe I could find, with extremely detailed steps. I think they are trying…

> trying to discourage the usage of "something style" naming The law prohibits exactly this. From the Wikipedia article [1]: [Under Protected Geographical Status laws] it is also prohibited to combine the indication with words such as "style", "type", "imitation", or "method" in connection with the protected indications [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t...

The legal thing and more common thing in the US is “Compare with ”, which doesn’t imply equality but does give away that it’s some kind of clone

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#136

Post by apexalpha »

SeanLuke wrote: post #108
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In California they also sell "Californian Champagne", some legal quirk allows it. It basically depends on the trade deal. Anywhere in the EU, "Champagne" has a very definite geographic meaning involving a region in France. Likewise "Feta" cheese, "Port" wine etc etc. But elsewhere it depends on the nature of the deal with the EU. E.g. Western Cape, South Africa makes good sparkling wine, but the EU flexed muscles i…

In the US, most feta is incredibly made with cow's milk. So no, the US doesn't have strong protection there.

But then how would you find actual Feta (sheep/cow milk and original recipe) if everyone can call anything they want Feta?

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#137

Post by thrwn_frthr_awy »

s_dev wrote: post #107
_jal wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect to see a video on "How to make edible dairy product that is absolutely nothing like Grana Padano" by the weekend.

"I can't believe it's not butter"!

Trader Joe’s calls their almond milk “almond beverage” because of lawsuits from the dairy industry.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#138

Post by qalmakka »

justinclift wrote: post #93
qalmakka wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, that's kind of true. They've been producing basically a _slightly_ inferior, cheaper knock-off version of Parmigiano-Reggiano for centuries and nobody ever complained; at least they always steered clear from associating themselves with the "Parmesan" brand because like many knock-offs they basically achieve what is arguably a less prestigious and blander product by having laxer quality standards. For instance, P…

That's interesting. Wonder if it'd be feasible to come up with an equivalent of Yakult, but to give cows to nuke/kill-off unfriendly bacteria like Clostridium?

It already exists, it's called giving cows the right feed, and it has been done in Italy since the early middle ages. Quality requires effort, and the whole problem arises from Grana Padano producers being stingy and wanting to reuse byproducts of corn production instead of growing or buying the right types of grass.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#139

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

apexalpha wrote: post #136
SeanLuke wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, most feta is incredibly made with cow's milk. So no, the US doesn't have strong protection there.

But then how would you find actual Feta (sheep/cow milk and original recipe) if everyone can call anything they want Feta?

two possible answers:

1) Specialist shops will stock imported authentic original Greek Feta

2) you don't - cheap product drives out the original. This is exactly why names like "feta" are protected in the EU.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#140

Post by simonebrunozzi »

I'd guess most of you don't know that "parmesan" (in the US, and elsewhere) is nothing like the real "parmigiano reggiano". It's tens of times cheaper to produce, and I'd venture to say that it might as well be several times less healthy than the original.

Same thing for "grana padano".

If you don't know anything about wood pulp in the parmesan, or fake olive oil, I suggest you read "real food, fake food" [0]. It opened my eyes.

I guess the reason why the Italian consortium sent this (otherwise stupid) cease-and-desist to this poor Australian guy, is because they're desperately trying to defend the real stuff from the fakes.

I sympathize with the guy, but it's a global battle; and organizations that are supposed to defend the consumer are doing next to nothing (expecially in the US). This is not about protecting a "brand"; it's about the fact that when you buy grana padano in the US and it's made of sh*t, you as a consumer should be able to tell.

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/Real-Food-Fake-Youre-Eating/dp/161620...

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