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How to Think for Yourself

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Think for Yourself

#121

Post by sct202 »

goto11 wrote: post #88

Fun observation that everybody in this community consider it positive to be "independent minded". But the author seem to fall into the same trap at the end: When I wrote "The Four Quadrants of Conformism" I expected a firestorm of rage from the aggressively conventional-minded, but in fact it was quite muted. They sensed that there was something about the essay that they disliked intensely, but they had a hard time f…

I don't think this community is unique in the number of people who believe themselves to be independently minded. I can't recall the last time someone has told me they are a conformist compared to the number of times I've heard someone describe themselves as an independent out of the box thinker.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#122

Post by amadeuspagel »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #120
edw519 wrote: post #98

Another place where the independent- and conventional-minded are thrown together is in successful startups. The founders and early employees are almost always independent-minded; otherwise the startup wouldn't be successful. But conventional-minded people greatly outnumber independent-minded ones, so as the company grows, the original spirit of independent-mindedness is inevitably diluted. This causes all kinds of pr…

4chan handles this perfectly, but it comes with a general unpoliteness and freedom that most people don't like. However, those aspects of it are exactly what keeps the community fresh and constantly re-inventing itself, because you need cultural artifacts (memes, ways of interacting, etc) to be generated that oppose whatever the prevailing narrative is, and those are harder to be generated if everyone has to be polit…

An underappreciated part of 4chan's genius is the bump mechanism, which means that if something gets a lot of replies it gets bumped to frontpage again and again - and of course the posts that get a lot of replies are exactly the ones that go against the grain of the forum, that people try to refute.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#123

Post by methyl »

> You don't want to start a startup to do something that everyone agrees is a good idea, or there will already be other companies doing it.

I must say I quite disagree with that statement. You definitely can run a successful startup without being novel. Other companies doing the same thing as you do is not necessarily something that will prevent you to be successful.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#124

Post by darkerside »

peterlk wrote: post #8

Excellent article > When you hear someone say something, stop and ask yourself "Is that true?" This is one of my favorite things to do, though the list of people who will talk to me again after I do it is very short. (Edit: To be extra clear... While this is a bitter pill - I do not like it when others do it to me - I do find it to be very effective for reinforcing good faith in close, trusting relationships. I also…

While this activity can be useful, I think it is simultaneously at the root of many of our social problems today.

You cannot ask this question about literally everything. Well, you can, but you'll end up questioning things that are universally accepted (Which way is North? Is gasoline flammable?). So naturally you dial it back, and you ask questions only about things that seem wrong, or that you particularly care about.

The corollary is that you are going to decide subjectively (and somewhat arbitrarily) that some things are not worth questioning. And just like that, everybody has made their own independent assumptions about the truth, and we can no longer have discussions about a common set of facts.

The cure is not just questioning facts "more". The cure is actually aligning as a society about what we accept as true so that we can converse about the other things. But, that means less independent thinking, paradoxically.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#125

Post by rewtraw »

edw519 wrote: post #98

Another place where the independent- and conventional-minded are thrown together is in successful startups. The founders and early employees are almost always independent-minded; otherwise the startup wouldn't be successful. But conventional-minded people greatly outnumber independent-minded ones, so as the company grows, the original spirit of independent-mindedness is inevitably diluted. This causes all kinds of pr…

Subreddits seem to somewhat solve this by spinning off once they hit that level of dilution (low effort content, memes, repeated questions). The 'serious' members will create a new subreddit (i.e. /r/movies > /r/TrueFilm) in order to shake off the casual members and return the discussion to its roots.

It's not perfect, but the subreddit design has definitely given Reddit more longevity since you can rotate your memberships and only join subreddits with higher effort content. Yes, the default subreddits are filled with the same memes every post, but just unsubscribe from those and curate your feed.

Not a solution for HN, however.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#126

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

ojnabieoot wrote: post #71
lonesword wrote: post #23

Did anyone find the article too long? Don't get me wrong - the first few paragraphs were engaging and thought-provoking. The rest of the article looked as if it could be condensed to two paragraphs. This is not a criticism - I'm just curious to know if I was bored because I have a short attention span, or if the amount of novel/useful content in the article plummeted sharply beyond the first few paragraphs.

Like many of PG’s essays about psychology or society, the problem is that this essay is basically an aphorism or a self-help book: there’s no logic here, no citations, no connection to facts. It’s just a bunch of feel-good BS for libertarian-minded tech workers. I get the impression that the length is (at least unconsciously) making up for the absence of rigor. A few paragraphs of “stuff that has no real argument but…

He does seem to be pandering to his target audience - specifically those who will be just independent enough to consider failing at a startup, but not so independent that they'll question the more questionable elements of startup culture.

Startup culture really isn't the most natural home for independent and original minds. It's a good match for those who are just different enough to play the game on its own terms, but not so different they'll ask themselves why the game exists. Or whether better games are possible.

And IMO independence correlates far more closely with creativity. I find it more useful to wonder "What is this belief/tradition/culture going to look like five hundred years from now, and/or from the perspective of a disinterested alien visitor?" than to wonder if I'm being independent enough to get investor funding.

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#127

Post by _blu »

dijit wrote: post #39

So, I might have a controversial opinion here. My mother raised me to think for myself, it was a heavy emphasis of my upbringing and important for her. However I'm now in situations where the world is divided and asking questions (in order to make my own mind up) is considered some kind of admission of guilt for being part of the "other". For example: Asking someone why they think immigration is good/bad. If it's a b…

there's a degree of social intelligence involved with your examples. It's not really about "thinking for yourself", as everything is about context. uou don't have to completely become the other person in order to empathize. For most people it does not require strenous effort.

evolution is all about the ability to fit in. this includes the ability to be your own person with your own opinions. a well adapted person can do that and still being a part of the group/society

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#128

Post by lowcodetv »

hnracer wrote: post #105
base698 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He mentions in the next sentence: "I'm not suggesting that you impose on everyone who talks to you the burden of proving what they say" > When you hear someone say something, stop and ask yourself "Is that true?" Don't say it out loud. I'm not suggesting that you impose on everyone who talks to you the burden of proving what they say, but rather that you take upon yourself the burden of evaluating what they say.

Although it could act as a good filter, if they lash out it's a valuable red flag

Absolutely a clear signal that their belief is emotional. If you step on that toe just make it clear that you aren't questioning them at all, in fact, "you agree with them... you just wanted to know some sources to point to when those other nosey people who question our beliefs do so"... and diffuse the situation.

You really just want to make the other person feel "heard" and respected for their opinion, if that's the level at which they communicate.

Most people just want to feel some control over their lives, so telling them they're wrong and trying to reframe their reality might not ultimately be a positive, as long as their beliefs allow them to remain predictable and act within reason in their society.

What's their motivation? If it is to knowingly start and propagate lies, then you're obviously not going to get them to change. If it's to parrot falsities to feel control or look smart (what I believe PG is referring to as "conventional-minded"), figure out ways to subtly shift that without making it clear you're undermining them, if that's your motivation. It doesn't have to be all or nothing unless you're a cult leader or protecting a loved one from a con.

But then, hey, why is your reality the correct version of reality?

Re: How to Think for Yourself

#129

Post by frogpelt »

peterlk wrote: post #8

Excellent article > When you hear someone say something, stop and ask yourself "Is that true?" This is one of my favorite things to do, though the list of people who will talk to me again after I do it is very short. (Edit: To be extra clear... While this is a bitter pill - I do not like it when others do it to me - I do find it to be very effective for reinforcing good faith in close, trusting relationships. I also…

When it's appropriate to do so, and it's information that can be verified you can say, "Where did you get your information/Where did you learn that?" which may be slightly less confrontational.

If it's just an opinion, well, you might ask "how did you arrive at that conclusion?" or you might smile and say, "Oh, yeah?"

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