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Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

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Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#51

Post by chii »

Reelin wrote: post #35
krageon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is about protecting the consumer, because it prevents a million "grana padano alike cheese product " type products, like you'd get in markets where these rules don't exist.

> It is about protecting the consumer Nonsense. Protected origin status is protectionism plain and simple. That's not to say whether it's bad or good, just to call it what it is. Proliferation of confusing low quality lookalikes is prevented by having an enforced criteria and associated labeling requirements. (If the text is too small as in your example then either the labeling requirements aren't sufficient or they…

> low quality lookalikes

and if the low quality is really as low quality as claimed, consumer would stop buying it. But if the "low" quality is actually great quality/good value for money, then consumers will buy it - regardless of the naming. Using law to prevent competition is worse for the consumer.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#52

Post by giorgioz »

vertis wrote: post #49
giorgioz wrote: post #47

Also the youtuber set the video preview screenshot to showing only an image with written "Grana padano" https://www.youtube.com/c/GavinWebber/search?query=grana%20p... It seems to me the youtuber is clearly exploiting the name Grana Padano to gain views. As much as Trademarks can't be used freeily by other users so you can't use products of Denominazione di Origine Controllata (Controlled Origin Denomination). Imagin…

IANAL but doesn't adding 'style' shove it firmly into fair use?

Well to start he didn't write "style" on the video screenshot preview, he just wrote Grana Padano. Also he could have made a video generically called "How to make parmesan style cheese" but he decided instead to use the very specific protected product Grana Padano. To me it doesn't seem fair use and there is a monetary incentive for the youtuber to use the term Grana Padano to have more views and/or get paid more by Youtube for views.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#53

Post by visarga »

qalmakka wrote: post #29
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny part is that Grana Padano were infringing on Parmigiano-Reggiano for centuries.

Lol, that's kind of true. They've been producing basically a _slightly_ inferior, cheaper knock-off version of Parmigiano-Reggiano for centuries and nobody ever complained; at least they always steered clear from associating themselves with the "Parmesan" brand because like many knock-offs they basically achieve what is arguably a less prestigious and blander product by having laxer quality standards. For instance, P…

You talk at length about the 'cheese' part of the issue, but there is also the 'free speech' part. Do you think a brand of cheese can be so special as to justify censuring speech?

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#54

Post by krageon »

chii wrote: post #51
Reelin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is about protecting the consumer Nonsense. Protected origin status is protectionism plain and simple. That's not to say whether it's bad or good, just to call it what it is. Proliferation of confusing low quality lookalikes is prevented by having an enforced criteria and associated labeling requirements. (If the text is too small as in your example then either the labeling requirements aren't sufficient or they…

> low quality lookalikes and if the low quality is really as low quality as claimed, consumer would stop buying it. But if the "low" quality is actually great quality/good value for money, then consumers will buy it - regardless of the naming. Using law to prevent competition is worse for the consumer.

Please don't use "the consumer will stop buying it" type arguments, there are so many examples in real life where you can see trash will absolutely be bought (mostly by people that don't know the world could be not trash). It is a bad faith argument.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#55

Post by Manheim »

Obviously, this is the result of the tyranny we get when we have a lawyer run IP protection program. They serve to protect, but the results of their activity is to bury all interest and knowledge of the IP they protect. I suspect that most of the Italian Grana Padano cheese makers are perfectly fine with the video this guy published, even glad for the interest he has in their product.

I love the t-shirt, btw

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#56

Post by visarga »

veselin wrote: post #22
rstarast wrote: post #14

The C&D seems baseless, considering the video goes out of its way to remark that it's not making "the real thing". I could still see this working out well in terms of publicity for the Grana Padano brand -- seems unlikely there's any real risk of a Streisand effect here where everyone makes their own Grana Padano at home following the video's viral spread.

This request is not baseless at all. If you have in the supermarket a noname cheese that is branded "Grana Padano style", it would hurt the trademark.

> This request is not baseless at all. If you have in the supermarket a noname cheese that is branded "Grana Padano style", it would hurt the trademark.

You don't sell cheese on YouTube, though. Why should private commercial interests be able to censure free speech around the globe?

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#57

Post by karatinversion »

chii wrote: post #51
Reelin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is about protecting the consumer Nonsense. Protected origin status is protectionism plain and simple. That's not to say whether it's bad or good, just to call it what it is. Proliferation of confusing low quality lookalikes is prevented by having an enforced criteria and associated labeling requirements. (If the text is too small as in your example then either the labeling requirements aren't sufficient or they…

> low quality lookalikes and if the low quality is really as low quality as claimed, consumer would stop buying it. But if the "low" quality is actually great quality/good value for money, then consumers will buy it - regardless of the naming. Using law to prevent competition is worse for the consumer.

The experience of this forum's users trying to buy electronics from amazon suggests this is not the case.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#58

Post by dec0dedab0de »

giorgioz wrote: post #52
vertis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but doesn't adding 'style' shove it firmly into fair use?

Well to start he didn't write "style" on the video screenshot preview, he just wrote Grana Padano. Also he could have made a video generically called "How to make parmesan style cheese" but he decided instead to use the very specific protected product Grana Padano. To me it doesn't seem fair use and there is a monetary incentive for the youtuber to use the term Grana Padano to have more views and/or get paid more by…

To me it doesn't seem fair use and there is a monetary incentive for the youtuber to use the term Grana Padano to have more views and/or get paid more by Youtube for views.

But the whole point of a trademark is to reference the thing that is trademarked.

As long as it is clear that he's not affiliated with them then I think it is fair. If he said unofficial guide to make Grana Padano. Or my recipe that's better than Grana Padano then it would be fine.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#59

Post by vertis »

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO.

I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea.

It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent.

The mind share for that word went down. Instead we found ourselves hearing people asking for Prosecco or bubbly. Champagne might now be able to assert that only the'quality' product from their region has the name, but I suspect it's just caused the companies that produce wine to make sure that they own the trademark, and push their brand, not the term champagne. Regardless of whether it's from that region.

On the flip side there are several products in Europe (and potentially elsewhere) that use the term Aussie or Australian, and they're not actually Australian businesses[1]. Both were originally American businesses.

So I get the need for some level of origin protection. Both of the Australian products imply something that isn't accurate, either manufacturing or ingredients.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussie_(shampoo) [2]: australiangold.com

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#60

Post by tgv »

giorgioz wrote: post #47

Also the youtuber set the video preview screenshot to showing only an image with written "Grana padano" https://www.youtube.com/c/GavinWebber/search?query=grana%20p... It seems to me the youtuber is clearly exploiting the name Grana Padano to gain views. As much as Trademarks can't be used freeily by other users so you can't use products of Denominazione di Origine Controllata (Controlled Origin Denomination). Imagin…

As long as the recipe isn't copyrighted, or obtained while under an NDA, I don't see the problem. The trademark is not being used to sell cheese. If we follow your style of reasoning strictly, it would also be forbidden to make videos or documentaries like "How Coca Cola became a success in the Soviet Union" or "Animals tortured in test lab" (although for the latter case, there would obviously be a need to substantiate the claim).
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