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What would happen if computers never got any faster?

shkspr.mobi

61–70 of 183 posts

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#61
The author's use case is gaming, actually retro games. While that does not benefit so significantly from faster computers, other industries would significantly benefit from computers running as fast as possible.

Simple use case of doing a compile to generate a binary. Imagine if that process was only a few milliseconds, C language could be reclassified as an interpreted language. :-)

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#62
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how CPUs work then? I'm curious what matters if clock speed and core count doesn't.

operations per second is what ultimately matters.

How do ops/s relate to clock speed, core count and architecture (x nm) then?

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#63
post #20

Related achievement: The original Atari 2600 Pac Man was notoriously bad. Someone made a much better version in 2014. http://retrogamingmagazine.com/2015/09/07/pac-man-on-atari-2... https://atariage.com/forums/topic/229152-new-pacman-for-atar...

Currently the rom is about 120 bytes free, so I'm trying to add other things.

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#64
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's orthogonal. You could always scale performance by throwing money at it in the past; the issue here is the promise of "free" performance improvements just by virtue of the natural upgrade cycle.

I'm pretty sure 32 core 3.5 Ghz CPU wasn't available at all for PC in 2010.

I believe the point of the poster you replied to was that if you have software running at speed X it won't get particularly faster if you run the same software on a 32-core CPU. Not if the original system also ran at 3.5GHz. I.e. it doesn't get magically faster by throwing more cores at it. It could get faster by better or faster caches etc, and that's valid, but the additional cores don't magically help.

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#65
post #57

Lately I've been feeling like computers have become fast enough . During the 1990s, the pace of improvement was staggering, and the impact of every hardware improvement was really felt. But these days, I've come to expect a 10-year life from my hardware. My previous PC, now 12 year old, worked admirably for 10 years. It ran The Witcher 2 just fine. It did everything just fine, except for the latest games; after some…

There is a new wave of games coming which use advanced physics, think destructible voxel worlds, like minecraft but having blocks of 1cm instead of 1m. VR benefits immensely from CPU/GPU overkill and can use any cycle it can get. The status quo you see now is caused by CPU stagnation not the other way around. Once tech finds a way to afford more cycles games and applications will find ways to use them (and not just by wrapping them with Electron :).

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#66

Just recently I got a Pentium 90 up and running using modern software (NetBSD 9.0). Doing a side by side speed comparison against my 3970x threadripper you can see the AMD is ~200-500x faster on a given task. The P90 creeks along running the modern kernel. mpv and mplayer can't play anything smoothly (not even as a .wav file) and mpg321 fires up pulseaudio before it starts playing so that's not happening. In this who…

The interesting thing is that in their day we used those devices to do real work. The main thing that sticks in my mind wasn't the slowness but the lack of stability. Rebooting/reinstalling to fix issues was very common.

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#67
Programs will be rebuild and optimised many times. Fully written in low level assembly. Probably many different versions for each hardware configuration. Ultra low level hacks will be found to speed up the application. After 50 years they manage to run real-time raytracing on a 486 with some insane unexplainable tricks.

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#68
post #46

Just recently I got a Pentium 90 up and running using modern software (NetBSD 9.0). Doing a side by side speed comparison against my 3970x threadripper you can see the AMD is ~200-500x faster on a given task. The P90 creeks along running the modern kernel. mpv and mplayer can't play anything smoothly (not even as a .wav file) and mpg321 fires up pulseaudio before it starts playing so that's not happening. In this who…

> mpv and mplayer can't play anything smoothly (not even as a .wav file) If you mean command line tools, this is a bit surprising (assuming no pulse audio). >As machines have progressed, the great wins of the past have become nearly unmeasurable noise. I bet they are measurable when you get the cloud bill...

I think I got it with an "nas" version of mpg123. I have the test audio in the home directory. You can try it out yourself

Here's a youtube livestream of the machine. The monitor is hooked up and running X under the hn user account along with a set of speakers. You can feel free to run things with the DISPLAY=:0 environment set.

Have fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcA8kiqd_n4

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#69
post #33

The final products of those amazing programs that show up late in the platform's lifetime are indeed running on the same hardware, but aren't those programs often developed using faster computers of later periods? For instance, Donkey Kong Country does run on an unmodified SNES purchased on its launch day, but its creation shouldn't have been possible were it not for the Silicon Graphics workstations used to create t…

Amazing demos are released on the C64 today. High quality productions spanning several disk sides, still pushing the boundaries of the machine and doing things like playing video streamed from floppy, using the SID chip for sample playback with incredible quality, squeezing the last out of every single byte of RAM. It shows how well the authors know the system. Many of them have coded for it for more than 30 years and know every little bit about it by heart.

Still, those demos couldn't have been created on an unexpanded C64 without the help of modern cross-development: running an assembler natively takes up memory that can now be freed for data and code. The same goes for some of the audio and graphics: using a PC to downsample from a higher resolution yields better quality and those resolutions wouldn't fit on a floppy, let alone the unexpanded memory.

Some of it could maybe be done natively with a RAMLink and hard drive, but not all of it.

Re: What would happen if computers never got any faster?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the guy is living in some alternate reality. E.g., here on planet Earth low- and mid-range consumer laptops have been getting slower , not faster over the years. (Yeah, they're lighter and more power-efficient, but that's orthogonal.) Same deal with servers: AWS and Azure are dog-slow compared to the on-premises server hardware we'd have before "the cloud".

I think that this is wrong perspective. The computers that you and I are using right now on our desks does not get slower. A CPU running 3.6GHz will still be running at 3.6GHz in a few years time. The moving target is software.

3.6GHz from 10 years ago and 3.6GHz from today aren't the same though. Modern processors have way more specialized hardware for common tasks that weren't common a decade ago.

Yes, the compute cores are going at the same speed. But you aren't getting the significant advantage of other hardware optimizations.

Just look at the M1 benchmarks for goodness sake. (A bit unfair because it's RISC-V based, but even x86 hardware has improved enormously in the last decade.)

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