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Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

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Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#181

Post by didibus »

bigbubba wrote: post #146
yummypaint wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue it goes beyond "drugs are evil" for many people and is more of a vestige of the country's backwards puritanical past. It has little to do with medicine and is more closely related to the idea that pleasure is wrong and pulls one away from devotion to the church, tithing, etc. If presented with a hypothetical recreational drug with no side effects, people with this perspective will immediately say it sho…

Blaming puritanical opposition to fun seems like a 'just so' narrative that fits some of the apparent facts, but is contradicted by others. For instance, American culture glorifies caffeine, particularly coca cola which is portrayed in corporate propaganda as a 'fun' drink. When it comes to commercial products like that, there seems to be no hint of an anti-fun bias, ...except perhaps in the Mormons. While anti-fun a…

Another commenter linked to this, which I think actually makes a great proof that puritanism definitely was one of the factor:

https://mashable.com/2016/04/18/anti-weed-film-posters/

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#182

Post by krrrh »

ficklepickle wrote: post #172

The sound track for the original Johns Hopkins trial is supposed to be really good. I met someone tangentially related to the project. "Chet", if you are reading this, I hope you are well.

Someone put it together on Spotify, and I converted it to Apple Music. You can find links to both here:

https://www.notion.so/quant/Johns-Hopkins-Playlist-for-Psilo...

It’s good, and there are a lot of other interesting trip playlists on Spotify too.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#183

Post by dnhbt »

m463 wrote: post #162
fsloth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume the main reason for the controversy is the prevailing dogma "Drugs are evil". This dogma has been used to enact countless bills of legislation in most rich countries, which in turn have encumbered the justice and police system, which in turn have put thousands upon thousands of people into to the correctional system for years. After all that busywork, lives destroyed and taxpayer money wasted, it is really…

On the other hand, knowing first-hand of some screwed up lives plus collateral damage, some drugs might just be evil. Thing is, it's hard to tell in the beginning where things are going so people might lump them all in together.

>knowing first-hand of some screwed up lives plus collateral damage, some drugs might just be evil.

Criminalization and stigmatization cause more harm in the long-term than drugs do.

Are all drugs as innocous as cannabis or psilocybin? Gosh no.

Does criminalization and stigmization of drug use make the problem 10,000x worse? Very.

Imagine if the US followed Oregon's lead and decriminalized all personal use. Drug users can seek out help and get harm reduction (eg: needle exchanges, advice, etc) and get them participating in the medical system where we can help them out of addiction, no families will be destroyed because of a little weed (or heck, meth), we save a bunch of money on drug enforcement, we could close private prisons, etc.

I am not saying utopia, but maybe we should look at drug use as something besides a personal moral failing. No one wakes up and decides to be a drug addict... no one _wants_ to be an addict.

This idea that drug users are burn-outs who chose that life is absurd.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#185

Post by bigbubba »

cubix wrote: post #165
bigbubba wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respect seems incompatible with airing your criticisms to strangers on the internet. That, to me, is not respectful.

My aunt passed away a few years ago now. Her husband will never read this. The rest of the family agrees with me as far as I know. I don't see who I'm disrespecting by publicly and semi-anonymously questioning those decisions in retrospect.

Victimless disrespect is still disrespect.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#186

Post by remir »

barrenko wrote: post #102

For me it's summed up in one of the addict stories that I read somewhere, where the guy said the hallucinogenic "spirits" basically told him to get off hard drugs or they would kill him. He's been sober since.

One of my past colleague smoked pot everyday and one night was franticly searching for his "dose" and he was getting extremely frustrated because he couldn't find it.

He told me that it got to a point where he got mad and literally blacked out! He found himself in a black void which he described as very disturbing and hellish because all he could feel was dread and the sound of screams.

He never touched any substances after that and was shook up when he told me that story.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#187

Post by rStar »

scottlocklin wrote: post #145
rStar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hallucinogenics, for those that have a positive experience, are so foreign and outside the bounds of normal life, while making you feel like you have new insight into your own life, that people just want other people to have that experience. kind of like the first time you see the ocean or the grand canyon or a sequoia.

It's incredibly creepy, like people insisting you join their religious or sexual cult. It's definitely beyond "hey the grand canyon is cool to look at" or "motorcycles are fun" and is way out there next to "wild eyed moonies handing out flowers at the airport." I'm always creeped out by HN threads on the subject, along with the ones on depression and the collection of fruit salad antidepressants/speed some people nee…

i think there’s a difference between “pushing” and talking about one’s experiences and recommending the experience. additionally, “creepy” is an aspect of a person, not a hallucinogenic. lastly, you are correct - “It's definitely beyond "hey the grand canyon is cool to look at" or "motorcycles are fun." It’s not that those experiences are only “fun” or “cool”, it’s that it’s a novel experience you couldn’t have expected or predicted before having it, which leaves you with a sense of something like awe. when I describe hallucinogenics to people, it’s with an explicit “you do you.” Hallucinogenics are a self directed experience, though you aren’t in control. It’s more like the mindset of someone who’s cool with whitewater rafting versus someone whose not. on a class 5 rapid, the river is always in control, and as a rafter, you have to accept that to have a positive experience. so, if you feel like you shouldn’t do hallucinogenics, you are correct, you should stay the hell away from them.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#188

Post by oops »

hourislate wrote: post #113
rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

There is multi-billion dollar industry to support. It's comprised of the Prison Industry, Police/Police Unions, Judicial System/Prosecutors/Administrators, etc. As crime has fallen and society has become less violent, Politicians have to look for ways to keep the steady flow of Meat into the Prisons since they don't fill themselves and billions of dollars at stake, 10's of thousands of jobs, generous campaign donatio…

There is another multi-billion dollar industry who probably would rather people keep paying them for their antidepressants than growing some cheap shrooms in their yard.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#190

Post by ironmagma »

varispeed wrote: post #46
rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

The problem is that in many western cultures suffering is being regarded as a virtue and happiness as a great sin especially if achieved by using substances rather than through other actions. You can glaringly see that where people with chronic pain are denied access to medicinal cannabis, for example here in the UK. You can only receive treatment through a private medical clinic which costs hundreds and sometimes th…

There are probably good societal reasons to discourage the use of mind-altering substances. It’s a bit of a tragedy of the commons in the worst case, you don’t want half the people you interact with to be on a mushroom trip throughout the day; that would be incredibly unproductive.

Not saying anything against its medical applications, only justifying the general antithesis against mind-altering substances in everyday life.

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