An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools • Hacker News Board

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#61

Post by est31 » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:14 AM UTC

Sevii wrote: post #8

Isn't code search more table stakes nowadays? Both github and gitlab have it. There isn't anything said about end to end, integration or functional testing here. I'm in a world where everyone hacks their own system together onto the same runtime, leading to some wonky outcomes and lots of operational support. Would be interesting if there was a 'google' way to do it.

Google used to offer code searching for public repos but then, expectably, they abandoned it. Now it's only used for google-owned/run projects. But when it was around it was really amazing. Github's code search is quite lame in comparison. I often just run ripgrep locally instead.

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#62

Post by herodoturtle » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:15 AM UTC

lima wrote: post #24

tdeck wrote: post #11

> Many years ago, I did a brief stint at Google. A lot has changed since then, but even that brief exposure to Google's internal developer tools left a lasting impression on me. Perhaps the operative phrase being "Many years ago". I currently work at Google, previously I worked at Square. Of the two, I generally prefer the OSS and off-the-shelf tooling at Square. Some things really are better at Google (code search a…

Gerrit is configurable and it is common to use it like Critique with blocking comments and LGTMs. It's still a big step up from, say, GitHub PRs, and the UX has improved significantly.

I read a beautiful comment like this, and I think to myself,

a) Am I just old? I have no idea what's cool these days.

b) #Wow that sounds #epic! I best get #hodling.

c) The GitHub PRs team were a nice bunch. I wonder what they're doing now?

d) > Gerrit is configurable\n> with blocking comments and LGTMs\n\nShow us an example please?

-

herodoturtle

#486dx2 #zerocool #gorilla.bas #mode13h #nehe #0x5f3759df #lamp #vi

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#63

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:17 AM UTC

tpetry wrote: post #19

logicslave wrote: post #14

Honest opinion on FAANG tools is that the big ones are now antiquated and slowing these big tech companies down. Eventually they will need to rip out all these tools that once gave them an edge and replace them, but they cant bc of how much depends on them, and whala, you have a large failing slow company

Declaring a FAANG company failing because it‘s toolset is antiquated is the rare hn elitist opinion you see here more and more. Are startup people in the valley more and more becoming blind to the real world?

[deleted]

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#64

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:18 AM UTC

ponker wrote: post #16

logicslave wrote: post #14

Honest opinion on FAANG tools is that the big ones are now antiquated and slowing these big tech companies down. Eventually they will need to rip out all these tools that once gave them an edge and replace them, but they cant bc of how much depends on them, and whala, you have a large failing slow company

Is “whala” an adaptation from the French “voilá” or of a different origin?

[deleted]

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#65

Post by raverbashing » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:27 AM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #11

> Many years ago, I did a brief stint at Google. A lot has changed since then, but even that brief exposure to Google's internal developer tools left a lasting impression on me. Perhaps the operative phrase being "Many years ago". I currently work at Google, previously I worked at Square. Of the two, I generally prefer the OSS and off-the-shelf tooling at Square. Some things really are better at Google (code search a…

Yes please, Github PRs are much, much better than Gerrit or Ritveld (urgh), and the +1/+2 quirks of it

No, I'll take Github PRs any day. They could be better, of course.

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#66

Post by throwaway4good » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:31 AM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #30

prepend wrote: post #29

Sourcegraph seems interesting but the pricing seems off for me. The “Teams” plan costs $150/month for 25 people and that works out to $6/user/month. Using GitHub it’s between $4-21/user/month. So this means that insight from my source costs sometimes more than actually managing my source. I’ve never worked at Google but it seems like one benefit is that they’ve figured out how to scale the costs of this kind of funct…

It only needs to save your developers a few minutes of time on average to be worth it.

It also needs to compensate the users for the time spent setting it up, learning it, playing with it until it actually solves a valued added use case.

We developers often overestimate the value vs. cost of the tools we use ... many tools have a negative value vs. cost eventhough they are free.

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#67

Post by summerlight » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #35

idank wrote: post #2

Nice, but tools are only one thing to miss about development at Google (or any other of the FAANGs). I found the more meaningful thing is the ecosystem of smart engineers, and the ability to find others who face similar problems, exchange ideas and solutions. It's a skill of its own to find these people and learn their "language", but once you do, it's a huge multiplier that is hard to find elsewhere.

I would say there are lots of smart engineers at non-FAANG companies too; especially engineering-first orgs.

I think what the OP intends is its size and diversity of the talent pool. Obviously, there are so many smart engineers outside FAANG, but it's also true that having world-class experts on cryptography, networking, distributed system, web technologies, machine learning, microprocessor, compiler etc etc... in a single company is something very rare.

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#68

Post by isatty » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:35 AM UTC

Sevii wrote: post #8

Isn't code search more table stakes nowadays? Both github and gitlab have it. There isn't anything said about end to end, integration or functional testing here. I'm in a world where everyone hacks their own system together onto the same runtime, leading to some wonky outcomes and lots of operational support. Would be interesting if there was a 'google' way to do it.

(Disclaimer: Googler)

Internal code search is miles ahead of GitHub/Gitlab search and is super fast and reliable. I have not used source graph (which everyone seems to talk about) but in my past experience in other companies nothing comes close.

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#69

Post by tsjq » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:44 AM UTC

throwaway4good wrote: post #55

throwaway4good wrote: post #44

The article is based on the assumption that what developers absolutely need are the overengineered and bureaucratic tools of a big monopoly company wealthy enough to hire the absolutely best for even the most menial task.

What are the tools used in the most cash-strapped companies facing fierce competition yet prevailing?

Vim, gcc, notepad++, python, mspaint, libre office, gimp,

Re: An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools

#70

Post by antoinealb » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:48 AM UTC

logicslave wrote: post #21

tpetry wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Declaring a FAANG company failing because it‘s toolset is antiquated is the rare hn elitist opinion you see here more and more. Are startup people in the valley more and more becoming blind to the real world?

I'd say once you take a peak behind the curtain at some of these FAANGS you see that their once greatest assets are becoming liabilities. The magic of "FAANG" goes away. The innovative systems they all built in 2007-2012 period are now aging.

I don't think I agree with you. Systems have been evolving, some are being deprecated, rewritten, etc. It might be true that the OSS world has been catching up so it is worth less to have a custom made solution. But the fact that systems are aging does not mean that those systems are becoming irrelevant.