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Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

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Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#141

Post by beagle3 »

ffpip wrote: post #109
beagle3 wrote: post #78

There have been several unofficial reports of Facebook unifying the backend messaging among Instagram, WhatsApp and FB Messenger. If and when that happens, E2EE on WhatsApp will finally be completely gone. Anyone knows how far along (or canceled) that plan is?

> Anyone knows how far along (or canceled) that plan is? Zuckerberg said instead of removing Whatsapp's e2ee, he would add e2ee to Instagram and Messenger and then 'unify the backend', We both know how likely that is, and how long that will take to be implemented (if implemented at all)

Given that Jan Koum and Brian Acton both left a few hundred million USD on the table, and the reason was supposedly "changes to whatsapp that FB promised they wouldn't do", I would assume it is going to become perfectly wiretappable.

As a other comments in this discussion pointed, e2ee means nothing because (a) the client is closed source, auto-updating, and (b) 98%[0] of the users use Google's cloud backup which is unencrypted (and I suspect was done that way to have a quickly-wiretappable change to the WhatsApp ecosystem without making it patently obvious)

[0] Don't know where that comment took the number from, but it jives with my personal experience. I don't know if it is encrypted on iCloud for iPhone users.

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#142

Post by _vmyf »

spoondan wrote: post #91
_vmyf wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~~Suppose law enforcement reports a user to build a case against them, then the user's message could be subpoenaed right?~~ ~~Even worse, 3 letter agencies~~ Forget I said anything

No. If Alice reports Bob, the report only includes the most recent messages from Bob to Alice as forwarded from Alice's local copy of their chat. No other messages are made available to WhatsApp. None of Bob's other messages to other people are included, nor could they be since Alice wouldn't have them. In your scenario, if Alice was law enforcement or cooperating with law enforcement, her reporting Bob and then them…

ah, i'm stupid

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#143

Post by _vmyf »

multjoy wrote: post #84
_vmyf wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~~Suppose law enforcement reports a user to build a case against them, then the user's message could be subpoenaed right?~~ ~~Even worse, 3 letter agencies~~ Forget I said anything

Yes. Same as any organisation who is sent a copy of the screenshots by the user.

oof i'm stupid

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#144

Post by pvg »

ffpip wrote: post #139
dang wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you submitted the post with a misleading title. "WhatsApp can now read your recent messages when you report a user" implies that they've acquired some new power to read user data when in reality it's you who are forwarding them a copy, for the obvious reason that reporting a user would be meaningless without that.

> implies that they've acquired some new power to read user data when in reality They have added this power to read user data when you report it. All of which I have included in the title. >for the obvious reason that reporting a user would be meaningless without that. This is a change from past behavior. WhatsApp didn't forward a copy of messages when you reported people previously. Now they do. Which is what I clea…

It's not ok on HN where clickbait titles and editorialized titles are not ok, 'factually correct' or not. You can't just say we should agree to disagree on whether to have clickbait or editorialized titles.

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#145

Post by mola »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #98
mola wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can't you just block him? Why is the a report option at all? These are direct messages, why are they treating it like a public platform?

It is a public platform. You don't need to be invited to send someone a message.

Then block them. When is reporting necessary? When someone calls your mobile and harasses you, you block their number. If it's criminal harassment that won't end, you call the police. Who needs reporting for directessages, this is just odd.

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#146

Post by vlovich123 »

ryukafalz wrote: post #92
vlovich123 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reproducible builds are a step up but remember that it requires you to build with the exact same binary-identical toolchain. If that’s already compromised your guix challenge isn’t really doing anything of value. Again, I’m not saying these aren’t valuable things that make attacks more difficult/expensive but the uncomfortable truth is we haven’t figured out how to truly establish zero-knowledge trust. So on that spe…

I mean, sure, we're not there yet. If the Guix folks are able to get a bootstrap path going all the way from something like stage0, though, we'll be in a pretty good place I think: http://bootstrappable.org/projects/mes.html Maybe the current state is closer to WhatsApp than where we'd really like to be, but that should be a challenge rather than a reason to give up.

Never said anyone should give up but my point is that to my knowledge there's no actual proof of how to solve this. We're just stumbling in the dark trying ideas.

I'm curious if you've actually had a chance to read Ken Thompson's compiler virus hack. The Guix bootstrap path from stage0 still doesn't solve the problem as at the end of the day all compilers eventually self-host from a previous version. So whatever compiler you're using for stage0 can have the virus, inject it into the produced binary, & you'll never find it since the virus is in the binary not in the source. Now obviously this is an extreme example and no one actually has any knowledge of whether or not such attacks are practical or have existence proofs beyond a proof of concept.

My overall point though is that everything boils down to trust & the question is who you choose to trust & where. Ultimately, we're all "careless" on that front as there's just too many dimensions to evaluate on. Beyond just basic malware packaged with the code, is the privacy being respected? Are the security practices good enough to withstand attacks? etc etc. Complaining that WhatsApp is slurping a copy of your messages that you are reporting to them & therefore E2E encryption isn't valuable is a fallacious & misdirected argument IMHO.

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#147

Post by threesmegiste »

est31 wrote: post #4

> WhatsApp can now read your recent messages when you report a user This feature is just an extension of manually making a screenshot and attaching it to the messages. As much as I like E2EE, I don't see where the problem lies? It's you who opts in into getting a third party involved. E2EE doesn't mean that no third party is ever going to see the content, it only means that nobody sees it by default .

Facebook blaming is regular and got good rating

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#148

Post by scottlocklin »

baby wrote: post #99
ffpip wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That is what 'stores everything in the cloud' means. Even the e2ee thing is not audited properly. They are just more trustworthy, have open source apps, better usability [ and unlimited storage :) ] . Signal > Telegram > Whatsapp

I would use Whatsapp before Telegram personally

Yeah a FB employee would say that

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#149

Post by that_guy_iain »

mola wrote: post #145
that_guy_iain wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a public platform. You don't need to be invited to send someone a message.

Then block them. When is reporting necessary? When someone calls your mobile and harasses you, you block their number. If it's criminal harassment that won't end, you call the police. Who needs reporting for directessages, this is just odd.

If some dirty peadophile is sending kiddie porn, I personally think it would be a good thing if WhatsApp stopped allowing them to use their service.

> If it's criminal harassment that won't end, you call the police.

This is funny because you clearly haven't realised the police normally won't do anything.

Reporting is necessary if it's spam, harrassment, child porn, etc.

I feel like you're out of touch with the use cases of WhatsApp.

Re: Reporting a user to WhatsApp forwards a copy of recent messages from that chat

#150

Post by that_guy_iain »

ffpip wrote: post #131
that_guy_iain wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a public platform. You don't need to be invited to send someone a message.

They need your phone number.

Yea and I can just fire in random numbers and spam people freely. Not only that, I can just create new numbers and harrass with ease.
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